Doctrinal Dissonance

Started by tradical, August 27, 2014, 12:04:23 PM

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tradical

+JMJ+

The arguments on dogmatic facts have been instructive in the degrees that people will alter a perception in order to preserve a belief.

For example, here's a snippet of an argument I had on Ignis Ardens:

Quote
The discussion segued in a number of different directions until Catholicam Replied:

You entirely miss the point. This so called council is full of heresy, ambiquity, blashphemies, and in some places outright falsehoods.
As such, it cannot be a work of the Church. Just as the Novus Ordo is a foreign body injected into the life of the Church, so is this false council.
Therefore the Church must eventually condemn this council for what it is.The True Church of Christ does not "learn" lessons. She is perfect and KNOWS. What She knows, is imparted directly by Christ, Who is all truth and knowledge.

Catholicam went on further to say:
So you believe it was a true Council,You then must believe it to be a work of the Church.Which would mean that the Church can promote heresy and error.
and on another thread as an example supporting his above claims:

Lumen Gentium: "But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the ONE and merciful God"

To say that the Church of Christ prays to, or adores a solitary pagan God is indeed a blasphemy against the Holy Trinity, and the First Commandment.

To counter this, I presented the following quotations:

12 Q. Who are infidels? A. Infidels are those who have not been baptized and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting one true God, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, Mohammedans and the like.  (Catechism of Pope St. Pius X)

Infidel: in ecclesiastical language those who by baptism have received faith in Jesus Christ and have pledged Him their fidelity and called the faithful, so the name infidel is given to those who have not been baptized. The term applies not only to all who are ignorant of the true God, such as pagans of various kinds, but also to those who adore Him but do not recognize Jesus Christ, as Jews, Mohammed; strictly speaking it may be used of catechumens also, though in early ages they were called Christians; for it is only through baptism that one can enter into the ranks of the faithful.  (Catholic Encyclopedia)

On purpose I concealed the origin of these two quotations.

Catholicam's response:
That is liberal ecumenist hogwash, straight from Vatican II. ...This is an entire waste of time.

When I revealed the source ... his reply:
I told you, I am through discussing this with you. It is an entirely fruitless effort, and a waste of time.

Catholicam could not accept the fact that there are two pre-conciliar references that conflict with his beliefs.  His belief was so strong that he couldn't admit that they exist.

Catholicam, Sedevacantists, Traditional and Modern Catholics need to make certain that they don't become so entrenched in what they think is the truth that they reject the truth.


http://tradicat.blogspot.ca/2014/08/doctrinal-dissonance-application-of.html

Applying the Cognitive Dissonance Model to the crisis in the Church is valuable.

There is Doctrine and how the Church explained it.  There are what people believe as to these doctrines.  They are not necessarily aligned and when confronted with a conflict between their belief and the Church doctrine people encounter discomfort.

Depending on how strongly people hold their beliefs (which is tied to culture), they will make a selection between the three options.

In general modernists would have us change the perception of the doctrine (since the doctrine is relatively fixed).  However, if a Trad has a misbelief about Catholic Doctrine and holds it firmly - then they will do exactly what the modernists have done.

Alter the perception of the doctrine.

Funny how holding a misbelief about Church doctrine leads to a response similar to the modernists.

So as a warning to all Catholics we need to understand Church Doctrine as the Church understands and explains it.

If not ... well we risk falling into error and becoming that which we strive against.

P^3
P^3
Prayer
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Patience

My Blog: http://tradicat.blogspot.ca/