Would you rather...?

[Michael Wilson]

I lived in Spain for 12 years in the most conservative and Catholic part, and there is still a lot of vestiges of the Catholic past all over; but the people have been almost totally ravaged by the modernist clergy and the continuous anti-Catholic propaganda in the media and school system.
There is more Catholicism in the U.S. Than in Spain, and 100x less anti-Catholicism.

[Bonaventure]

I lived in Spain for 12 years in the most conservative and Catholic part, and there is still a lot of vestiges of the Catholic past all over; but the people have been almost totally ravaged by the modernist clergy and the continuous anti-Catholic propaganda in the media and school system.
There is more Catholicism in the U.S. Than in Spain, and 100x less anti-Catholicism.

¿Cuál parte?

[Michael Wilson]

Cantabria.

[Baylee]

I need to save my soul. Wokeness itself doesn't do anything to prevent that. Yeah it's annoying as hell but I have seen a resurgence of common sense in my generation.

Having access to reliable TLM and sacraments is far more important to me.

In b4 "hopefully this access is to a man ordained by a bishop consecrated in the pre 1968 rite or else it is invalid."

 

Don't forget - he has to clearly, regularly, and publicly denounce Bergoglio and the Conciliar Church, otherwise it doesn't count.

He also would need to not recognize and resist, but be sedevacantist. Or else his position would be aligned with enemies of Catholicism.

Well you two are on a roll.  What are you trying to accomplish by mocking those of us who have strong opinions on the invalidity of new order priests/where we prefer to assist mass?  Would you like me to leave the forum? If so just say the word because your childish/rude behavior is getting old.

[dueSicilie]

I picked other. I would prefer to live in 1938 Munich. Laus, I(and many others) are eagerly awaiting your anecdotes, assessments, and compare/contrasts of your trip. Also, curiously, what are the nationalities of the Society priests serving the mission there? Spasseeva.

I would prefer pre-Anschluss Austria

[Heinrich]

I picked other. I would prefer to live in 1938 Munich.

Care to elaborate about why you'd pick that time specifically?

Nur ein Wort hier passt: die Geborgenheit.

ETA: explanation of word: https://germanyinusa.com/2021/02/24/word-of-the-week-geborgenheit/

[diaduit]

I picked no 1.

After coming through the Covid year of none or restricted access to Sacraments, I can tell you it was torture for me personally.  I need the Sacraments (no more than anyone else) and somehow feel that God was giving me a preview or taste of what is to come and I can definitely feel His hand in shaping me for the last few years in preparation for that. Deo Gratis.

More Sacraments will cure the 'woke' eventually, not the other way around.

Queen Saints, lovely words on our homeland.

Recently heard from a very conservative Polish man who lives in Dublin for years.  Last Ash Wednesday he couldn't believe how packed the church was(NO),  and he thinks people are sick after the jab and also know deep in their soul, somethings up...they are returning to mass.

[awkward customer]

I voted 'Other', a non-woke country with continuous access to the traditional sacraments.

[LausTibiChriste]

I voted 'Other', a non-woke country with continuous access to the traditional sacraments.

Doesn't exist

[Michael Wilson]

It's really a choice between "very","medium" and "less" woke; Russia is just "less" woke than say Hungary, and they are less than France etc. The remedy for "wokeness" is not "less" wokeness or another erroneous ideology, but the Catholic faith. For individuals, I highly recommend the "spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius"; particularly the first meditation on God: "Principle and Foundation"

13FIRST WEEK
PRINCIPLE AND FOUNDATION
Man is created to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by this means to save his soul.
And the other things on the face of the earth are created for man and that they may help him in
prosecuting the end for which he is created.
From this it follows that man is to use them as much as they help him on to his end, and ought
to rid himself of them so far as they hinder him as to it.
For this it is necessary to make ourselves indifferent to all created things in all that is allowed
to the choice of our free will and is not prohibited to it; so that, on our part, we want not health
rather than sickness, riches rather than poverty, honor rather than dishonor, long rather than short
life, and so in all the rest; desiring and choosing only what is most conducive for us to the end for
which we are created.

Man is a creature who is totally dependent on God, and whose whole purpose of existence and life is to know love and serve God. There is no alternative to God's plan for order, men do not have the 'right' to any other plan or idea.

[Bonaventure]

Well you two are on a roll.  What are you trying to accomplish by mocking those of us who have strong opinions on the invalidity of new order priests/where we prefer to assist mass?

This forum is the virtual house/cafe/meetup spot for the "two of us."

I am not sure who you are claiming to speak on behalf of when you use the first person plural pronoun of "us."

Here is a clear example of you interjecting your belief that the new rites of ordination and consecration are invalid into a discussion that did not broach these topics:

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=31538.msg629717#msg629717

The OP is clearly not a sedevacantist, SSPXer, etc. and stated she went to her "local parish." Also, a quick glance at her posting history demonstrates she has demonstrable anxiety and scruples regarding many issues in her life.

It is clearly your view that the best course of action in that moment was for you to post what you did, and promote your "party line" on the current situation in the Church.

I've been around for a long time, and the most prolific, intelligent, and charitable Sedevacantist posters I knew ( @Michael Wilson or @INPEFESS ) did not do this, either on this, or other forums, that they participated on.

So, I can post exactly what I posted, and if you don't like it, it's on you. I am not going to stand by and allow one invited into our virtual "house" or "coffee shop" to proceed to call all of my guests who are non-sede as having a position aligned with non-Catholics/enemies of the Church, or to constantly tell people who go to their local parish that all of their sacraments are invalid. It would be bad hospitality on my part, if nothing else.

Would you like me to leave the forum? If so just say the word because your childish/rude behavior is getting old.

If either of us wanted you gone, it would be done in an instant. As Tony Soprano said, "You probably don't even hear it when it happens, right?"

Neither of us, nor anyone for that matter, forces anyone to log in, type, and hit the post button.

[josh987654321]

It depends, many variables.

I'm of the opinion of clau clau and Kaesekopf, grow where you are planted as much as possible, but if times are desperate, one can never rule it out.

I'd also say in regards to woke and less woke, that I think the same was true before WWII, as the Allies all dabbled with the Darwinism, Atheism and Eugenics of the Nazis, it's only when they could see what the Nazis did with it, and that they were the ones declared the 'inferior' race to die out or be killed off, that they went in the opposite direction, just like the 'liberals' during the French Revolution who supported many of their ideas, until they witnessed the 'Reign of Terror' in the name of 'Liberty'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

So as long as the 'less woke' are not caught in the net when it becomes full and gets dragged in, they can wake up and go in the opposite direction if they still have the means to do so.

Personally I don't have the means or connections to make such a massive move even if I wanted to, so I will stay where I am no matter what and pray for the best.

God Bless

[josh987654321]

Although speaking of naivete, I still secretly long for the Catholic Church to return to its pre-Vatican II orthodoxy and there to be a reunion of it and the Orthodox Church. Of course, in the real world I cannot ever see the Orthodox agreeing amongst themselves, let alone returning to unity with Rome. Heck, Constantinople and Moscow are now not even in communion with one another.

Not to go too far off topic, but I see a possibility, a ROC broken away from these other corrupted Orthodox groups seeking the fullness of the truth, then a restored Roman Catholic Church seeking the fullness of truth, there is a possibility there for a reunion of sorts based on the truth, which would be long lasting, rather than some false union out of convenience.

The very schisms in Orthodoxy (Part of a pressure campaign against Russia IMO) I see as rather similar to the ones in Catholicism, only ours are currently more hidden bubbling under the surface with those who love Bergoglio and those of us who see him as a destroyer... a non-canonically elected destroyer as per St Francis of Assisi in my case.

The ROC do get a lot right, I think the Catholic Church needs to recognise Mary's status as Co-Redemptrix which fits perfectly with the Immaculate Conception and the Dormition, which according to Wikipedia Pope Sergius I (687–701) recognised the Dormition also.

My main issue would be the leavened bread issue, as Exodus 12 is very clear about the instructions for the Passover, in no uncertain words and all the Jews of the time knew it very well. Nevertheless we are still in a sort of communion with other Orthodox groups who use this, as we recognise the Red Wine to be valid matter and the married Priests thing is perhaps another hurdle, so time will tell anyway, in any case, we do have a lot in common and one can recognise the others commonality without compromising on the truth IMO. 

God Bless

[Michael Wilson]

The difference between the Catholic Church and all other groups, no matter how much they resemble the Catholic Church in doctrine or discipline, is that there is only one divine institution here on earth that is God's instrument for the salvation of mankind. The Catholic Church isn't the "best" among a group of similar institutions, but the only one of its kind: The Mystical Body of Christ.
The present crisis in the Church has caused many Catholics to lose sight of the fact, that just as during the Passion, our Lord's divine nature was obscured, so that it appeared that His enemies had triumphed over Him by killing Him; so in our present day, the divine nature of His Mystical Body is so obscured by the present crisis of the Church, that many have lost sight of this, and begin to see the Church just as "another" good group, but not as "The" Church.

[Baylee]

Well you two are on a roll.  What are you trying to accomplish by mocking those of us who have strong opinions on the invalidity of new order priests/where we prefer to assist mass?

This forum is the virtual house/cafe/meetup spot for the "two of us."

I am not sure who you are claiming to speak on behalf of when you use the first person plural pronoun of "us."

Here is a clear example of you interjecting your belief that the new rites of ordination and consecration are invalid into a discussion that did not broach these topics:

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=31538.msg629717#msg629717

The OP is clearly not a sedevacantist, SSPXer, etc. and stated she went to her "local parish." Also, a quick glance at her posting history demonstrates she has demonstrable anxiety and scruples regarding many issues in her life.

It is clearly your view that the best course of action in that moment was for you to post what you did, and promote your "party line" on the current situation in the Church.

I've been around for a long time, and the most prolific, intelligent, and charitable Sedevacantist posters I knew ( @Michael Wilson or @INPEFESS ) did not do this, either on this, or other forums, that they participated on.

So, I can post exactly what I posted, and if you don't like it, it's on you. I am not going to stand by and allow one invited into our virtual "house" or "coffee shop" to proceed to call all of my guests who are non-sede as having a position aligned with non-Catholics/enemies of the Church, or to constantly tell people who go to their local parish that all of their sacraments are invalid. It would be bad hospitality on my part, if nothing else.

Would you like me to leave the forum? If so just say the word because your childish/rude behavior is getting old.

If either of us wanted you gone, it would be done in an instant. As Tony Soprano said, "You probably don't even hear it when it happens, right?"

Neither of us, nor anyone for that matter, forces anyone to log in, type, and hit the post button.

So only YOUR party line is allowed, and I must walk on eggshells if I don't fit YOUR party line.  And you can continue to be rude and mocking while you do it.  Bye.