Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?

Started by Acolyte, February 17, 2014, 12:42:09 AM

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Older Salt

While the NO was validly promulgated as Mass, it does not express the Catholic Faith that well.

Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

Older Salt

Quote from: Jayne on February 17, 2014, 08:30:38 AM
Quote from: Acolyte on February 17, 2014, 12:42:09 AM
While obviously less reverent and lacking compared to the TLM, I believe the Ordinary Form (Novus Ordo) is a valid Roman Catholic Mass.

I agree. 

I would like to see the NO abrogated and replaced by the 1965 rite while, at the same time, access to the TLM is improved so that it is a realistic option for most Catholics to attend.
Why even complicate the matter with the 1965 rite?

Just have one Rite throughout the whole world for unity.

The TLM in the Roman Church.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

Older Salt

Quote from: Chestertonian on February 17, 2014, 02:32:08 PM
Quote from: bben15 on February 17, 2014, 02:29:23 PM
The TLM had been in use for 1,900 years in the Church, only to be replaced by the Novus Ordo.

not....exactly.
The most important parts of the TLM are that old.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

dueSicilie

Quote from: Bonaventure on February 17, 2014, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: LouisIX on February 17, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.

Petrie

Quote from: dueSicilie on February 17, 2014, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: Bonaventure on February 17, 2014, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: LouisIX on February 17, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.

Exactly. 
Also known as 2Vermont in case you were wondering :-)

Older Salt

Quote from: dueSicilie on February 17, 2014, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: Bonaventure on February 17, 2014, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: LouisIX on February 17, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.
So the Church gave us a Mass where the Body and Blood of Christ, the most unbelievable miracle ever on earth after the Resurrection, is not confected?
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

Penelope

Would this be a good time to remind everyone that trads ought not use the "Ordinary Form/Extraordinary Form" terminology? No matter what our prelates claim, the two rites are not two versions of the same Mass. We need to weed this mentality out of Catholics' understanding of the Mass(es).

Kaesekopf

No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

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Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.

Petrie

Quote from: Older Salt on February 17, 2014, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: dueSicilie on February 17, 2014, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: Bonaventure on February 17, 2014, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: LouisIX on February 17, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.
So the Church gave us a Mass where the Body and Blood of Christ, the most unbelievable miracle ever on earth after the Resurrection, is not confected?

It is interesting to note that none of the approved Eucharistic miracles chosen for this Vatican exhibit occurred in the NO:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm


Also known as 2Vermont in case you were wondering :-)

Jayne

Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 17, 2014, 03:45:46 PM
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

I use it when it is the clearest way to communicate with my audience.  I have no problem using the terminology that Pope Benedict designated for us to use.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Christknight104

Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 17, 2014, 03:45:46 PM
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

The problem is that the Superior General of the FSSP and various Institute priests have used that term themselves in their sermons.  Can one  say the same about them?

Kaesekopf

I would argue probably.  It's a filthy, lying phrase.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.

bben15

Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 17, 2014, 04:17:48 PM
I would argue probably.  It's a filthy, lying phrase.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

"Two equal forms of the Roman Rite."  :rolleyes:

Bonaventure

Quote from: Older Salt on February 17, 2014, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: dueSicilie on February 17, 2014, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: Bonaventure on February 17, 2014, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: LouisIX on February 17, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.
So the Church gave us a Mass where the Body and Blood of Christ, the most unbelievable miracle ever on earth after the Resurrection, is not confected?

What is so difficult to understand about validity having nothing to do with liceity?
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

VeraeFidei

Quote from: Jayne on February 17, 2014, 04:07:16 PM
Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 17, 2014, 03:45:46 PM
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

I use it when it is the clearest way to communicate with my audience.  I have no problem using the terminology that Pope Benedict designated for us to use.
For what it is worth (not that I happen to care), he did no such thing; he merely stated that the Mass and the New Order are the "Extraordinary" and "Ordinary" forms; there is no command in Summorum to adopt the terminology.

Quote from: Christknight104 on February 17, 2014, 04:12:55 PM
Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 17, 2014, 03:45:46 PM
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

The problem is that the Superior General of the FSSP and various Institute priests have used that term themselves in their sermons.  Can one  say the same about them?
Yep, this is a tough one. Two ICRSS priests I know regularly use the term "Extraordinary Form," moreso than any other term for the TLM.