Saints and Temperament

[Jayne]

The four classical temperaments are Sanguine, Choleric, Melacholic, Phlegmatic.  Here is a video that gives a good feel for what these are like.  (It has been posted already in the Mary Garden, but the men have not seen it yet.)

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7mEh53rTc0[/yt]

Which saints do you associate with which temperaments?

[MundaCorMeum]

One of my all time favorite topics (that's favourite for you, Jayne). That video is hysterical.  The Husband and I crack up every time we watch it. 

Let's see....I think St. Therese is melancholic, and St. Ignatius is choleric (St. Augustine, too). I'll have to think on sanguine and phlegmatic.  None come to mind right now.

[Bernadette]

If I had to guess, I'd say St. Teresa of Avila was a mixture of choleric and melancholic.

[Akavit]

I'll have to think on sanguine...

That's easy.  Blessed Miguel Pro.  Of course he's not a saint yet but it's close enough to count for the purposes of this thread.

Let's see....I think St. Therese is melancholic,

If I had to guess, I'd say St. Teresa of Avila was a mixture of choleric and melancholic.

And if I were to guess, I'm thinking Munda is talking about St. Teresa the Little Flower.  I like the Spanish St. Teresa's temperament better myself.  I got through a big, thick biography about her but couldn't manage more than a few chapters of A Story of a Soul.

Edit:  I see I automatically Americanized the names of different saints.  Therese seems to be the French variation.

[Akavit]

Hmm.  For some reason my memory is telling me Miguel Pro was canonized but all the online sources are calling him blessed.  Odd.

[Bernadette]

Let's see....I think St. Therese is melancholic,

If I had to guess, I'd say St. Teresa of Avila was a mixture of choleric and melancholic.

And if I were to guess, I'm thinking Munda is talking about St. Teresa the Little Flower.  I like the Spanish St. Teresa's temperament better myself.  I got through a big, thick biography about her but couldn't manage more than a few chapters of A Story of a Soul.

No, I knew she meant the Little Flower. I prefer "Spanish St. Teresa's" temperament, too. Though I do find St. Therese's confidence in God to be encouraging. I bought a different translation of The Story of a Soul, by John Clarke, after reading that it was more faithful to the original manuscripts, and it was sooo much more accessible. Was it William Thomas Walsh's biography of St. Teresa that you read? I bought it years ago, and it was excellent. I just wish I could get the ICS editions of St. Teresa's works as audiobooks: right now I make do with the Librivox pre-1924 translations, but the ICS editions are so much better.

[MundaCorMeum]

Yes, I meant Therese of Lisieux (I hope I spelled that correctly).  I love her Story of a Soul.  I read a book by St. Theresa of Avila years ago, and I devoured it. It was excellent.  I can't remember the title, though.

Would St. John Bosco be a sanguine?  I don't know much about his personality, but his antics he used for drawing interest among his listeners sounds sanguine to me. 

Still drawing a blank on phlegmatics....St. Ignatius does have the "holy indifference" thing going, but I still think he qualifies as a choleric.

[Akavit]

I bought a different translation of The Story of a Soul, by John Clarke, after reading that it was more faithful to the original manuscripts, and it was sooo much more accessible. Was it William Thomas Walsh's biography of St. Teresa that you read? I bought it years ago, and it was excellent. I just wish I could get the ICS editions of St. Teresa's works as audiobooks: right now I make do with the Librivox pre-1924 translations, but the ICS editions are so much better.

I don't know which edition it was.  I do remember whoever wrote the foreword seemed to blame St. Therese's sister for adding some extra "sweetness" or some such literary embellishment but that's a ghost of a memory as I set it aside before getting too deep into it.  Since it's been awhile, I'm not sure if it was the writing style or a personality clash that made it a hard read.

[Akavit]

Still drawing a blank on phlegmatics...

St. Thomas Aquinas fits the mold if I'm not mistaken.

[Jayne]

Maximilian wrote something in another thread that is relevant here:

The most well know book on the temperaments written by the SSPX priest who used to be spiritual director at Econe seems to claim that only cholerics have any chance to be saints.

The author is clearly choleric himself, and he considers the choleric temperament to be by far the best. He writes pages and pages about cholerics and how they can all become saints if only they are steered in the right direction. He writes less about melancholics, even less about sanguines, and then only a couple paragraphs about phlegmatics with advice that consists primarily of "beat them frequently and don't hope for much."

[Quaremerepulisti]

The four classical temperaments are Sanguine, Choleric, Melacholic, Phlegmatic. 

This has as much relevance to today as saying the four classical elements are earth, fire, water, and air.  The "classical temperaments" are based on way outdated and falsified science which claims the human body is made up of "humors" which, when in imbalance, cause illness, and the precise mix of which determines one's temperament.

[Quaremerepulisti]

Maximilian wrote something in another thread that is relevant here:

The most well know book on the temperaments written by the SSPX priest who used to be spiritual director at Econe seems to claim that only cholerics have any chance to be saints.

The author is clearly choleric himself, and he considers the choleric temperament to be by far the best. He writes pages and pages about cholerics and how they can all become saints if only they are steered in the right direction. He writes less about melancholics, even less about sanguines, and then only a couple paragraphs about phlegmatics with advice that consists primarily of "beat them frequently and don't hope for much."

Why pay any attention to such nonsense?

[Jayne]

The four classical temperaments are Sanguine, Choleric, Melacholic, Phlegmatic. 

This has as much relevance to today as saying the four classical elements are earth, fire, water, and air.  The "classical temperaments" are based on way outdated and falsified science which claims the human body is made up of "humors" which, when in imbalance, cause illness, and the precise mix of which determines one's temperament.

The underlying science may have been falsified but there are patterns of behaviour and it can be useful to have language to discuss these patterns.  The ancients might not have had correct theories for causes of various kinds of weather but that does not mean it is not useful to make a distinction between rain and sunshine.

[MundaCorMeum]

Maximilian wrote something in another thread that is relevant here:

The most well know book on the temperaments written by the SSPX priest who used to be spiritual director at Econe seems to claim that only cholerics have any chance to be saints.

The author is clearly choleric himself, and he considers the choleric temperament to be by far the best. He writes pages and pages about cholerics and how they can all become saints if only they are steered in the right direction. He writes less about melancholics, even less about sanguines, and then only a couple paragraphs about phlegmatics with advice that consists primarily of "beat them frequently and don't hope for much."

Spoken like a true choleric 

[JubilateDeo]

Maximilian wrote something in another thread that is relevant here:

The most well know book on the temperaments written by the SSPX priest who used to be spiritual director at Econe seems to claim that only cholerics have any chance to be saints.

The author is clearly choleric himself, and he considers the choleric temperament to be by far the best. He writes pages and pages about cholerics and how they can all become saints if only they are steered in the right direction. He writes less about melancholics, even less about sanguines, and then only a couple paragraphs about phlegmatics with advice that consists primarily of "beat them frequently and don't hope for much."

Sounds like a real peach!