Author Topic: Saints and Temperament  (Read 6221 times)

Offline Prayerful

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Re: Saints and Temperament
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2016, 07:15:51 PM »
"Revised and enlarged" yet still they print the imprimatur?...  o.O

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A person can have great respect for the SSPX, but that habit (the Angelus Roman Missal seems a possible example of that) makes a mockery of an imprimatur (not that it might be easy to get nowadays with the present Pope, but the 'God of surprises' might say otherwise).
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Saints and Temperament
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2016, 07:19:10 PM »
"Revised and enlarged" yet still they print the imprimatur?...  o.O

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A person can have great respect for the SSPX, but that habit (the Angelus Roman Missal seems a possible example of that) makes a mockery of an imprimatur (not that it might be easy to get nowadays with the present Pope, but the 'God of surprises' might say otherwise).

The article in question wasn't actually SSPX-altered.  There was a miscomm.

However, I do agree that abusing imprimaturs is a bad thing.
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Offline Chestertonian

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Re: Saints and Temperament
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2016, 07:42:29 PM »
Choleric also make good totalitarian dictators.  I'm sure Stalin wasn't phlegmatuc

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Choleric also make good totalitarian dictators.  I'm sure Stalin wasn't phlegmatuc

Corruptio optimi pessima est: the corruption of the best is the worst sort of corruption.

that would presuppose that cholerics are "the best"

i think that cholerics are often thought of as the dominant personality trait,because they are more likely to see the world through the lens of power dynamics.  they are often perceived as "greater" because they are concerned with "greatness" to begin with.  i guess one of us will have to get to heaven to find out how many of each temperament finally ended up there
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Offline Chestertonian

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Re: Saints and Temperament
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2016, 07:44:29 PM »
it souds like she is writing about what to do if one of your nuns develops mental illness

but hard to say forsure, since i think the melancholic temperament was also thought of as an"excess of black bile" but i beliee it was also thought that metal illness was also caused by an overabundanceof black bile.  But was melancholic temperament seen as a mental illness in and of itself?  I dont think so.  although melancholics may be more prone to it than others. I believe it was also said that melancholiccs were also prone to physical illnesses as well but i do not remember where i read that one

in either case, the idea of an overabundance of "black bile" is not empirically true, but there may be a certain "poetic truth" to it nonetheless

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Offline Bernadette

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Re: Saints and Temperament
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2016, 08:00:41 PM »
it souds like she is writing about what to do if one of your nuns develops mental illness

but hard to say forsure, since i think the melancholic temperament was also thought of as an"excess of black bile" but i beliee it was also thought that metal illness was also caused by an overabundanceof black bile.  But was melancholic temperament seen as a mental illness in and of itself?  I dont think so.  although melancholics may be more prone to it than others. I believe it was also said that melancholiccs were also prone to physical illnesses as well but i do not remember where i read that one

in either case, the idea of an overabundance of "black bile" is not empirically true, but there may be a certain "poetic truth" to it nonetheless

That's what the footnote seems to support. Precisely, which is why I don't think St. Teresa is speaking specifically about "melancholics" as opposed to "cholerics," "sanguines," etc. The text doesn't support the idea that "St. Teresa didn't think melancholics were suitable for religious life," because she's speaking about melancholy in a different context: the results of an excess of the humor, rather than a certain temperament geared toward specific traits.
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Offline Akavit

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Re: Saints and Temperament
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2016, 10:09:17 PM »
I suspect the author of the book everyone is discussing was saying that cholerics were the most likely to become canonized saints.  To be canonized, a person can't just be holy.  They also have to be known well enough to get the process moving along.  Most individuals who live in obscurity don't have the benefit of a group of people willing to petition Rome for decades.

It's generally the choleric that makes a visible mark on the world and that alone increases the odds of being raised to sainthood.

I'm also pretty sure that just because two words are related, that doesn't necessarily mean they are synonymous.  Melancholy seems like it refers to a state of mind rather than a personality.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 10:12:08 PM by Akavit »
 
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Offline CamelliaSinensis

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Re: Saints and Temperament
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2016, 03:19:13 PM »
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/B007cpTemperaments_1.htm    This is a link to a really good two part article I read that came from a work by the late Fr Antonio Royo Marin, OP. I believe this is the work that Fr Desposito and Fr Ripperger quote is their talks on temperament. Certain temperaments fall easily into specific vices and can excel easily at specific virtues. People are usually a combo of two, like Melancholic with a bit phlegmatic or Sanguine with a bit choleric etc. I believe you can find Desposito's on YouTube and Ripperger's on SenTrad.org. He had a long and short version on the same topic.

 
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