Author Topic: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV  (Read 267 times)

Online TheSaintsAreComing

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St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« on: June 08, 2021, 04:15:06 AM »
St Margaret Mary Alacoque (hereafter just St Mary) allegedly received visions from Jesus in which He asked her to make known a new devotion to His Sacred heart. Living as a nun in a monastery, she managed to convince her sisters to observe the Feast of the Sacred heart, but during her life the devotion was not accepted by the church at large and would not be for almost another lifetime afterwards

Still she wanted to meet the king of France, Louis XIV, and convince him to consecrate France to the Sacred heart. According to her, this would ensure that France would triumph over ”all enemies of the Church”. Now, Louis XIV did not do this, and neither did his succesors, and it is said that exactly 100 years after St Mary had the vision urging her to ask the king for the consecration, the king of France lost all his power during the French revolution

Now, what I’m wondering is do we know why the Louis XIV did not go ahead with the consecration? I got my own theories, but figured it would be best to hear if there are some historical sources that recorded the king’s decision
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Offline Melkor

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2021, 08:33:34 AM »
Probably the because the ‘Sun King’ was not a very good Catholic. I think he believed he was a deity of some kind. Not the kind of man to take advice from a simple nun.
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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2021, 10:03:32 AM »
Hi Melkor


I had heard about Louis calling himself ”Sun king”, but not that he considered himself a god. According to one of those list-articles, he seemed to have believed that he had the power to heal people:

Quote

Like many other kings, Louis XIV also claimed to possess miraculous healing powers. On major holidays he went around touching those infected with scrofula (also known as tuberculosis of the neck).


And while he was a poor Catholic when it came to marital fidelity, he did seem to have taken his role as a Catholic monarch seriously:

Quote

A devout Catholic, Louis XIV believed in the motto, “one king, one law, one faith.” To that end, he mercilessly cracked down on the country’s Protestants, known as Huguenots, who made up roughly 5 percent of the population. The coup de grâce came in 1685, when, in revoking the nearly century-old Edict of Nantes, he stripped them of all religious and civil liberties. Hundreds of Huguenots who continued practicing their religion were put to death and at least 200,000 others fled France for more tolerant lands. At around the same time, Louis XIV expelled all Jews from the French West Indies. He even went after other Catholics who didn’t adhere to his narrow view of the faith, such as the Jansenists, who believed that humankind was inherently corrupt and that God bestowed salvation arbitrarily. In 1709 he banished the nuns from the movement’s main convent and soon after ordered its destruction, all the while lobbying the pope to condemn Jansenism as heretical.


Source: https://www.history.com/news/9-things-you-may-not-know-about-louis-xiv

But considering his meeting with St Mary: I don’t know if I can blame the guy. Apart from her own visions, did she have any other proof of how important it was to consecrate the kingdom to the Sacred heart? At the time this meeting took place, the pope had yet to approve of this devotion and at when it was first presented to the pope (which I think took place after the meeting with the king - maybe even after St Mary was dead), he did not approve of it.
Fides et ratio

”Bittida förgör jag alla ogudaktiga i landena, att jag må utrota alla ogerningsmän utu Herrans stad.”

- Psalm 100 (101) in Swedish
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2021, 09:06:26 PM »
Louis, apart from his marital issues, was a very devout king for his time. If memory serves me, he used to forbid theater and opera in France during Lent. He also expelled the Huguenots with the Edict of Fontainebleau of 1685, as TSAC has already alluded to.

The "sun king" was a carefully cultivated image of power but he was thoroughly Catholic.
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Offline DigitalLogos

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2021, 10:47:23 PM »
It's probably as simple as him disbelieving her claims. I know that Louis XVI ultimately did do the consecration while imprisoned by the Jacobins, but that unfortunately was one of those instances of "too little, too late".

Kind of like the consecration of Russia that the Fatima Center keeps calling for when the West has already been saturated by the errors of Russia for over 50 years. Sure, they could do it now, but, the time has already passed.
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Offline mikemac

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2021, 11:15:47 PM »

Kind of like the consecration of Russia that the Fatima Center keeps calling for when the West has already been saturated by the errors of Russia for over 50 years. Sure, they could do it now, but, the time has already passed.

No, I don't think so.  Our Lady of Fatima said it will be completed.

Quote
“If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace … In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.

Source
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 11:27:34 PM by mikemac »
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2021, 11:55:38 AM »
In the book: "Vida Y Obras De Sta. Margarita" by Fr. Jose Ma. Saenz de Tejada, S.J. Pg. 55 states the following (my translation):
Quote
17, How will France respond?
How to get the petition (of the Consecration) to the ears of the King of France? By means of his Confessor, Fr. Chaise, S.J., The saint said. Various recommendations were set into motion, among others, through the former Duchess of York (who was directed by Fr. De La Colombiere), the actual Queen of England, as wife of James II; however, the divine request, or never reached the King of France, or perhaps even to those of his Confessor; or they were judged to be not prudent, humanly speaking.
How would that haughty king lower himself to satisfy some mystical petitions of an obscure small town Visitation nun? Nor to bring himself to solicit from the Holy See the favor of a new feast, from him who had so many disputes and differences with the Vicar of Jesus Christ? It is true that in Rome the winds did not blow favorably for any new devotions. "They have told us, St Margaret wrote to Fr. Croiset, that because of Molinos and Quietism, they were going to prohibit new devotions and they would not permit that any new ones would be either permitted or established, and therefore devotion to the Sacred Heart would also be suppressed." This is a historical question that has not been entirely cleared up.
What a great pity that the King of France did not assent and second those petitions! What more blessed and efficacious weapon against the most perfidious and hidden enemies that plagued his long reign; the Jansenists? The Jansenist heresy was so dry and bleak in its doctrine, as it was proud and rebellious against the legitimate ecclessiastical authority. It presents God our Lord as a cruel tyrant; not the God of love, but the God of terror. And it stubbornly resisted Rome, its adepts stubbornly portrayed themselves as the loyal sons of the Church, while at the same time furiously combating her.
My own commentary: It appears from the message that Sr. Lucy received at Riano that King Louis XIV did receive the request of the Consecration of France and refused to do it; and by the time Luis XVI attempted to make repairs, he was no longer in position to carry out the request (being in prison), so that the consecration was never done.
Quote
:
     You console Me a great deal by asking Me for the conversion of those poor nations (Russia, Spain and Portugal)…Make it known to My ministers, that given they follow the example of the King of France in delaying the execution of My request, that they will follow him into misfortune. Like the King of France, they will repent and will do as I have requested, but it will be very late: Russia will already have spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church. The Holy Father will have much to suffer! But it will never be too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary."
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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2021, 02:48:55 PM »
Hi Michael


Thanks for translating that text. If I understod your translation correctly - according to text translated - St Margaret Mary never met the king? But the seer of Fatima was told that the king was informed about the request?
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”Bittida förgör jag alla ogudaktiga i landena, att jag må utrota alla ogerningsmän utu Herrans stad.”

- Psalm 100 (101) in Swedish
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2021, 03:32:47 PM »
Thanks for translating that text. If I understod your translation correctly - according to text translated - St Margaret Mary never met the king? But the seer of Fatima was told that the king was informed about the request?

There's no way to know.

It probably never reached the king's ear. And if it did, it's clear he didn't believe the Saint or didn't judge the consecration to be prudent.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 03:35:40 PM by Vetus Ordo »
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2021, 03:35:54 PM »
Hi Melkor


I had heard about Louis calling himself ”Sun king”, but not that he considered himself a god. According to one of those list-articles, he seemed to have believed that he had the power to heal people:

Quote

Like many other kings, Louis XIV also claimed to possess miraculous healing powers. On major holidays he went around touching those infected with scrofula (also known as tuberculosis of the neck).


And while he was a poor Catholic when it came to marital fidelity, he did seem to have taken his role as a Catholic monarch seriously:

Quote

A devout Catholic, Louis XIV believed in the motto, “one king, one law, one faith.” To that end, he mercilessly cracked down on the country’s Protestants, known as Huguenots, who made up roughly 5 percent of the population. The coup de grâce came in 1685, when, in revoking the nearly century-old Edict of Nantes, he stripped them of all religious and civil liberties. Hundreds of Huguenots who continued practicing their religion were put to death and at least 200,000 others fled France for more tolerant lands. At around the same time, Louis XIV expelled all Jews from the French West Indies. He even went after other Catholics who didn’t adhere to his narrow view of the faith, such as the Jansenists, who believed that humankind was inherently corrupt and that God bestowed salvation arbitrarily. In 1709 he banished the nuns from the movement’s main convent and soon after ordered its destruction, all the while lobbying the pope to condemn Jansenism as heretical.


Source: https://www.history.com/news/9-things-you-may-not-know-about-louis-xiv

But considering his meeting with St Mary: I don’t know if I can blame the guy. Apart from her own visions, did she have any other proof of how important it was to consecrate the kingdom to the Sacred heart? At the time this meeting took place, the pope had yet to approve of this devotion and at when it was first presented to the pope (which I think took place after the meeting with the king - maybe even after St Mary was dead), he did not approve of it.

The idea that a king could cure scorfula, king's evil, by touch, was a common thing. Louis XIV was in his earlier years adulterous by the standards of a French king who could have a maîtresse en titre, from the time of Henri IV, but became severely, harshly devout in his later years. Calvinists and Jansenists found out what that meant.
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2021, 05:00:01 PM »
Hi Michael


Thanks for translating that text. If I understod your translation correctly - according to text translated - St Margaret Mary never met the king? But the seer of Fatima was told that the king was informed about the request?
From the story of her life by Fr. Cepari, it is clear that she never met the King or even contemplated such an action. It was up to others to get the message to the King.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Santantonio

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Re: St Margaret Mary Alacoque’s meeting with king Louis XIV
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2021, 06:28:26 PM »
There is some confusion between Louis XIV and Louis XVI in this thread.