Is the SSPX lukewarm on family planning?

[LausTibiChriste]

I just want to say thanks to everyone, especially James, for their responses here....I was definitely in the hardcore "NFP is Catholic contraception" camp.

[1seeker]

Yep, thank you all. So much misinformation out there!

I s'pose what doesn't help is that we don't actually have a definitive position on 'family planning'. Maybe that's why various people who spread misinformation, do so by going in one extreme or other, seeking to at least get some clarity on the matter. It seems to me our final position is this: NFP is not a mortal sin, and family planning IS NOT a contraceptive mentality (or as james03 put it, contraceptive mentality is a false concept anyway). That is combined with the fact that it can still be proximate to sin if done incorrectly or under wrong moral conditions, which means that it should be done with reservation and without excess.

Fr Pfeiffer then, is perhaps too reluctant in allowing it, and the SSPX priests he mentions are too liberal in permitting it. Yes?

[kmo_9000]

2) Can anyone explain to me: isn't the idea of spacing out children, of controlling our children population, an instance of having a Contraceptive Mentality? I just didn't expect this sort of thing from SSPX when I know of conservative N.O. families exercising no family control whatsoever, arguing that it's THE ONLY catholic way.

This is something I have struggled with. It depends on how long you are spacing your children out. You have to consider your wife's health, and spacing our pregnancies every 2 years can give the woman's body time to recover from the previous pregnancy. In addition, it spacing our your children could also reduce the risk of having the baby have things like down syndrome. So considering these reasons, NFP could be justified because of health reasons.

HOWEVER, I see no reason why a young couple (say 20-25), should never have to worry about these things. These problems are mostly a concern the older you get. For example, studies have shown that down syndrome risk increases the older the mother is. And a youthful body shouldn't need a full year to recover. And even for some Catholics it seems we are delaying marriage till our late 20's or early 30's. And I also strongly disagree with this mentality where it's almost expected that you learn how to use NFP in order to be responsible parents, even if you are not married yet.

NFP is not a discernment tool, you don't go on NFP to discern whether or not you want to have children. It's the opposite, you discern whether or not to start using NFP. And you stop using NFP when you discern the condition in your marriage requiring you to use NFP is no longer present. This is the mentality I have a problem with, when people tell me NFP is a discernment tool used to decide whether or not God is calling me to have children. I'm married, marriage is for children, of course God is calling me to have children. NFP is for extra ordinary circumstances that may require certain discretion where children are concerned.

[The Curt Jester]

I know some NFP/marriage prep classes give a VERY STRONG impression that once married, a couple has two and only two choices:  ABC or NFP.   It's weird.  It's like they think not doing either isn't a option!

[JubilateDeo]

2) Can anyone explain to me: isn't the idea of spacing out children, of controlling our children population, an instance of having a Contraceptive Mentality? I just didn't expect this sort of thing from SSPX when I know of conservative N.O. families exercising no family control whatsoever, arguing that it's THE ONLY catholic way.

This is something I have struggled with. It depends on how long you are spacing your children out. You have to consider your wife's health, and spacing our pregnancies every 2 years can give the woman's body time to recover from the previous pregnancy. In addition, it spacing our your children could also reduce the risk of having the baby have things like down syndrome. So considering these reasons, NFP could be justified because of health reasons.

HOWEVER, I see no reason why a young couple (say 20-25), should never have to worry about these things. These problems are mostly a concern the older you get. For example, studies have shown that down syndrome risk increases the older the mother is. And a youthful body shouldn't need a full year to recover. And even for some Catholics it seems we are delaying marriage till our late 20's or early 30's. And I also strongly disagree with this mentality where it's almost expected that you learn how to use NFP in order to be responsible parents, even if you are not married yet.

That's not necessarily accurate.  There are a lot of other things to consider besides the mom's age.  I had my first baby when I was 25 and had severe postpartum depression afterwards, and am in the throes of it now.  On top of that, baby #2 is very high-need and has reflux, so it has just been very difficult all around.  Couple that with the fact that this time around, I haven't had any relatives come over and help out with the baby.  I think that when you have a second, 3rd, 4th, etc child, everyone just assumes that you have it all figured out and don't need anyone.   I love my kids very much, but there is no joy on my end.  I don't look back on the "baby phase" of my 1st's life with happiness either.  It was a dark time for me.  I think things picked up when she was around 18 months.  This baby is 7 months and I am definitely NOT recovered at all.  Her reflux means she wants to nurse all the time (to soothe the heartburn) and there is always a constant fountain of spit up.  It's gotten to the point where I stopped seeing her as a cute baby and she is just a spit up factory.  Now that we've started solids, she spits that up, too, so my outfits look like I am an extra on the set of The Exorcist, with regurgitated pureed peas in my hair.  I can't imagine another baby added into the mix.  I already feel like I will never get myself back. 

Also, if a woman has a c-section, she has a better chance of having a successful VBAC (vaginal birth after cesarean) if she waits a year to get pregnant.  This is why doctors usually tell c-section moms to wait at least 6 months, if not a year, before getting pregnant again.  Plenty of younger moms have c-sections. 

[erin is nice]

You can find a wealth of information on the question of whether NFP is truly Catholic at this site:

http://philotheaonphire.blogspot.com/p/nfp-posts.html

The author of this "book" had two children, and then was sterilized. She is clearly dealing with a lot of guilt, and has become obsessed with NFP.

[Kaesekopf]

Thank you for that info, Erin.  That is good to know.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Kaesekopf]

Here's another look at the book:
http://commonsensecatholicism.blogspot.com/2013/04/jay-boyd-and-traditionalist-trojan-horse.html?m=1

She does have an obsession with NFP, though.  Weird.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Kaesekopf]

On top of that, why do people use PhD titles when they are speaking outside of their chosen specialty?  Boyd's degree is in developmental psychology (apparently), not theology or biology. 

It's disingenuous at best. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Lydia Purpuraria]

You can find a wealth of information on the question of whether NFP is truly Catholic at this site:

http://philotheaonphire.blogspot.com/p/nfp-posts.html

The author of this "book" had two children, and then was sterilized. She is clearly dealing with a lot of guilt, and has become obsessed with NFP.

Actually she had one child and was sterilized. 

What exactly do you mean she is obsessed with it because of guilt? 

Are you saying that she sees the depth and consequences of her error and wants to do penance for it and help others avoid the same mentality she had that led her to such error?

Or are you saying it would be better if she shut up about moral issues because it was an area in which she sinned?

[LausTibiChriste]

Pretty easy to go off about how easy not using NFP is when you're sterilized. I paroused her site, didn't like what I seen

[Lydia Purpuraria]

Is that her argument, Laus?  That not using NFP is easy? 

[LausTibiChriste]

Is that her argument, Laus?  That not using NFP is easy?

I'm not making an argument, just saying the first thing that came to mind.

She did seem quite rigorist when I had a ramble through her site. I think the link KK posted does an excellent job of refuting her.

[MundaCorMeum]

2) Can anyone explain to me: isn't the idea of spacing out children, of controlling our children population, an instance of having a Contraceptive Mentality? I just didn't expect this sort of thing from SSPX when I know of conservative N.O. families exercising no family control whatsoever, arguing that it's THE ONLY catholic way.

This is something I have struggled with. It depends on how long you are spacing your children out. You have to consider your wife's health, and spacing our pregnancies every 2 years can give the woman's body time to recover from the previous pregnancy. In addition, it spacing our your children could also reduce the risk of having the baby have things like down syndrome. So considering these reasons, NFP could be justified because of health reasons.

HOWEVER, I see no reason why a young couple (say 20-25), should never have to worry about these things. These problems are mostly a concern the older you get. For example, studies have shown that down syndrome risk increases the older the mother is. And a youthful body shouldn't need a full year to recover. And even for some Catholics it seems we are delaying marriage till our late 20's or early 30's. And I also strongly disagree with this mentality where it's almost expected that you learn how to use NFP in order to be responsible parents, even if you are not married yet.

NFP is not a discernment tool, you don't go on NFP to discern whether or not you want to have children. It's the opposite, you discern whether or not to start using NFP. And you stop using NFP when you discern the condition in your marriage requiring you to use NFP is no longer present. This is the mentality I have a problem with, when people tell me NFP is a discernment tool used to decide whether or not God is calling me to have children. I'm married, marriage is for children, of course God is calling me to have children. NFP is for extra ordinary circumstances that may require certain discretion where children are concerned.

I think even a young woman needs adequate time to allow her body to heal between pregnancies.  Based on my personal experience and opinion, a full year (or more) is adequate.  Especially if they are open to having many babies.  Pregnancy, labor, and delivery can be very hard on a woman's body, mentally and physically, no matter what your age.  The more kids you have, the harder it is. 

There is also breastfeeding to consider.  If you plan to nurse your baby exclusively for longer than 6 months, getting pregnant will make that very difficult.  Pregnancy will deplete a woman's milk supply, thereby not allowing her to provide proper nutrition for her nursing baby.  Although, if she is practicing ecological breastfeeding, that should naturally delay a return of fertility until after baby is a year, thus giving her time to heal and be ready for the next one, should God decide to bless the family with another.  The way God designed women, fertility, breastfeeding, and the benefits to both mother and baby never ceases to amaze me.  It's quite beautiful, actually. 



Also, I agree with you, Curt Jester, that ABC or NFP are not the only options.  NFP is simply a tool that should be used responsibly and with much prayer....not as default mode.  It can be used in good conscience for both extraordinary and ordinary reasons, but it's certainly not a necessity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with simply entrusting everything to God, and accepting babies as they naturally come. 

[Penelope]

Ecological breastfeeding doesn't always work. Some women who follow the principles of ecological breastfeeding still see their fertility return immediately.