Nudity and Nakedness

Started by AveMaria12, September 21, 2022, 04:56:57 PM

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bedtimeprayers

#45
Quote from: AveMaria12 on October 19, 2022, 12:43:17 PM
Quote from: bedtimeprayers on October 19, 2022, 11:04:50 AM
Actually I have an additional comment. Just because women go in bikinis half dressed to the beach doesn't mean it's ok. NO, it's not ok to go to the beach naked OR in a half dressed bikini. In a beach with clothed people, you at least are not having your genitals out in the public. I don't even have the words to express this degeneracy...

No, I didn't say that it was okay. The bikini was designed to foster lust, for which reason I think it is sinful to wear publicly. However, nudity in itself is a natural state, which can be lustful or not. The nudity I see on a beach has a practical purpose, such as easier swimming or suntanning, and it is not meant to veer from this purpose unless someone of  perverse intent comes.

One can argue that even such practical purposes lack modesty, but then modesty is partly influenced by the mores of the time and by the situation. For example, we would call someone immodest for wearing a swim wear to the Church, even if this same swim wear would be acceptable and modest at the swimming pool. As for times, baptism used to be performed nude in the Early Church and quite a while after too, and saints also frequented baths, including St. John. I wouldn't say therefore, that nude beaches are sinful simply based on human instinct - that is, that it is intrinsically evil.

The baptism of the early church was done with the lights off for women, and they had female "deaconesses" (not ordained) for this very reason. Idk what your comparison to baptism is for. In a Nude beach you're naked in front of strangers of the opposite sex. In the early church, no one but CATHOLIC women who was a deaconess and other other women being baptized could see you. This is completely different.
Public baths, again, aren't indecent because it's for people of the same sex. And there is a purpose, namely, to bathe.
What's the purpose on being naked in front of strangers of the same sex in a nude beach? We're not talking about a place where no one sees you. Unless the beach is empty, someone's bound to see you or could potentially walk in on you. You'll also see naked people of the same sex.

No one is saying nakedness is inherently sinful, but humans are sinful. Adam and Eve covered themselves out of shame, and they were married!

Just ask yourself. Would one of the married female saints be OK with parading her nude body around a beach? Or looking at naked men?

Also idk what nudist beaches you're going to, but most nudist beaches are hotspots for sodomites.
Not to mention, you're not doing competitive swimming at the beach. Most people don't really swim in the ocean, they stand in the shallow beach water. You don't need to be naked for that...

Behold, the Handmaiden of the Lord, let it be done to me according to Thy Word.

bedtimeprayers

From the martyrdom of Saints Perpetua and Felicitas:
" First the heifer tossed Perpetua and she fell on her back. Then sitting up she pulled down the tunic that was ripped along the side so that it covered her thighs, thinking more of her modesty than of her pain. "
Behold, the Handmaiden of the Lord, let it be done to me according to Thy Word.

Vox Clara

From Genesis Chapter 3:

[6] And the woman saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold: and she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave to her husband who did eat. [7] And the eyes of them both were opened: and when they perceived themselves to be naked, they sewed together fig leaves, and made themselves aprons. [8] And when they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in paradise at the afternoon air, Adam and his wife hid themselves from the face of the Lord God, amidst the trees of paradise. [9] And the Lord God called Adam, and said to him: Where art thou? [10] And he said: I heard thy voice in paradise; and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself [...]

[21] And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them.



Was there any sinful intent in Adam and Eve's nakedness? No. Yet they were ashamed, and God saw fit to clothe them.


From Haydock's commentary:

Ver. 7.  And the eyes, &c.  Not that they were blind before, (for the woman saw that the tree was fair to the eyes, ver. 6.) nor yet that their eyes were opened to any more perfect knowledge of good; but only to the unhappy experience of having lost the good of original grace and innocence, and incurred the dreadful evil of sin.  From whence followed a shame of their being naked; which they minded not before; because being now stript of original grace, they quickly began to be subject to the shameful rebellions of the flesh.  Ch. --- Behold the noble acquisition of experimental knowledge!  This is supposed to have taken place about a week after they had enjoyed the sweets of innocence and of Paradise, that they might afterwards be moved to repentance, when they contrasted their subsequent misery with those few golden days.  They saw that they had received a dreadful wound, even in their natural perfections, and that their soul was despoiled of grace, which, of themselves, they could never regain.  O! what confusion must now have seized upon them!  "Confounded long they say, as stricken mute."  Milton --- H.

Aprons, or they interwove tender branches covered with leaves round their middle; a practice, which even the wild Indians and Americans observed, when they were discovered by Columbus.  They will rise up in condemnation of those pretended civilized nations, who, like the Greeks, could wrestle or bathe quite naked, without any sense of shame.  H. --- Adam's fig-tree, in Egypt, has leaves above a yard long, and two feet broad.  C.

Xavier

I agree with others. Our Lady of Fatima said more souls go to Hell for sins of the flesh than any other reason. It's not good to be naked in public, especially in the presence of the opposite sex. Nude beaches are no place for Catholic Women. Do you think Our Lady, if She lived on Earth, would permit today a daughter of Hers to go to a Nude Beach? Absolutely, She would not.

St. Jacinta's words were: "Many evil fashions will be introduced. Those who follow God must not follow these fashions. Think what St. Padre Pio, who was so strict on modesty, would say about Nude Beaches.

Article: https://www.salvemariaregina.info/WordstoJacinta.html

Quote"Our Lady's Words to Jacinta
(Español)



Those of us who profess to be followers and promoters of the message of Our Lady of Fatima must ourselves live that message in its every aspect before we can expect others to accept our efforts to promote it among them.

If we are to be faithful apostles of Our Lady of the Rosary of Fatima, then we must be "other Jacintas and Franciscos." We must take Her words to heart without exception, just as did the little shepherds to whom She entrusted Her Peace Plan from Heaven.

It is not for us to choose and select that part of Her message which appeals to us, and to reject that part which discomfits us or does not suit our way of living. Thus could we not call ourselves true apostles of Our Lady of Fatima were we to faithfully pray the Rosary daily, while at the same time refusing to accept Our Lady's pleas for penance, simply because it might disturb our comfortable, materialistic way of life. As also would it be an obvious mockery of Our Blessed Mother to call ourselves Her devotees or apostles while at the same time in any way cooperating with the present modernist perversion and destruction of the Church founded by Her Divine Son.

How disheartening, then, it must be to our dear Blessed Mother to witness so many of those who profess to be Her devotees going forth to promote every aspect of Her message but that part which displeases them. How deeply do they plunge the sword of grief into Her Immaculate Heart – those hypocrites who call themselves Our Lady's devotees, while rejecting Our Lady's words to little Jacinta: "Certain fashions are introduced which gravely offend my Divine Son."

How shallow is proven to be the depth of their faithfulness to their loving Mother as these mini-skirted mockeries of Mary's pleas for modesty dare to enter the House of God, and even to receive the Sacred Body of Our Lord: One wonders how they dare to take Rosary in hand with their skirts and dresses well above the knee and their plunging necklines. Surely the hearts and consciences of these unthinking girls and women must be unbelievably hardened not to realize that the over-exposure of their bodies is a source of lustful temptation to all normal men and boys. True it is that there are some fickle males even among the clergy, who profess to be "unaffected" and mockingly assert that "styles must change with the times." To these we need pay little heed as they are hardly representative of true manhood. And their objection that modern thinking does not react so lustfully to more daring styles is readily made false by the decaying morality prevalent on all sides. To deny that normal men and boys are tempted by the above-the-knee and plunging neckline styles of today is to deny that consequence of original sin – the struggle between flesh and spirit. Have we proceeded so far along the path of Chardinian evolution as to have become zombies no longer subject to temptations of the flesh? Such an assertion is pure rubbish – nonsense that could be repeated only by men (clergy or lay) who have themselves evolved into an effeminate perversion of manhood. How appropriate at this point are these words of Pope Pius XII:

"How many young girls there are today who do not see any wrong-doing in following certain shameless fashion styles LIKE SO MANY SHEEP! They would certainly blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. What sins are committed or provoked by this public display of deliberate and calculated immodesty? HOW LAX HAVE CONSCIENCES BECOME, HOW PAGAN MORALS!"

What a ringing admonition are these words of the Holy Father in contrast to the liberal, compromising laymen, priests, and religious who condone modern styles and thereby willingly collaborate in the perversion of morals and the damnation of souls.

To what extent this hypocrisy has reached has been readily evidenced in recent years by incidents such as these:

Several national conferences of "conservative" Catholics, loudly mouthing concerned preachments and lamenting the spread of Communism in the world and liberalism in the Church, while parading to the podium and about the conference floor in modern styles which "offend my Divine Son very much" (Our Lady). What pitiful hypocrites are these – lamenting the spread of those evil forces which God is permitting to spread because of the immodest styles they themselves are wearing! How much easier for these "conservatives" to gather together and loudly protest the very cancers of which they are the cause by their refusal to heed Our Lady's pleas for modesty than to humbly obey the Mother of God's demands for "amendment of life!" How egotistical these pseudo-traditionalists and "conservatives" who gather to substitute man-made solutions of their own creation for the Divine solution given to them at Fatima!

A recent round-the-world "pilgrimage" to deliver statues of Our Lady of Fatima to various countries was in fact a tragic mockery of Our Lady's message as Her pleas for modesty were ignored by various of the mini-skirted "pilgrims" who dared to march in procession as part of the contingent "accompanying the statue."

The height of obscene mockery of Our Lady appeared in the Holy Cross "Ave Maria" magazine in an article (pages 28-29) scoffing at the very idea of modesty, during the anti-Marian trend of the early Vatican II years. (The demise of the magazine followed shortly thereafter.)

These incidents, with so many others, make us wonder that the heavy hand of God's justice has not yet severely chastised and purified the Church and the world.

Any girl or woman whose dress does not cover her knees entirely when seated, or whose plunging neckline flaunts her immodest vanity, is unworthy of the name Christian, much less a follower of Our Lady of Fatima. Such a woman is responsible before God for every sin of impurity incited in the minds of men by her immodest dress. She may scoffingly laugh it off now, but will she laugh as she stands in judgment before the Throne of God, Who sent His holy Mother to warn against such styles? (Let us remember Our Lord's admonition that those men who so much as "look upon a woman with lust in their heart are guilty of adultery!")

Any man who would remain in the presence of an immodestly dressed woman or girl without reprimanding her and refusing to be seen with her is guilty of condoning such grievous offense against God by his very silence, and is also a hypocrite unworthy of the name of Christian.

Any parent who permits their daughter or son to wear the modern immodest styles are subject to the condemnation of scripture – "it would be better that they tie a millstone around their neck and cast themselves into the sea."

Any priest who permits immodestly dressed women to enter the House of God or gives them Communion is "guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord!" The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those squeamish priests and bishops afraid to speak out and who would "rather offend God than offend men." The priest's duty is to preach the truth openly without compromise, no matter who they might upset or offend because they are not living in conformity to the laws of God!

Any priest or religious who would permit girls to enter their schools or classrooms immodestly dressed are also guilty of giving scandal to God's children, and would be better off to "tie a millstone around their neck and cast themselves into the sea."

The words of the Mother of God warning against immodest fashions cannot be taken lightly by anyone who professes to be Her devotee, or to be a promoter of Her message of Fatima! To do so is to incur the wrath of our God, Who is "already too much offended!"

Bible verses on walking blamelessly with God, after being forgiven from our former sins. Some verses here: https://dailyverses.net/blameless

"[2] He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice:[3] He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours.(Psalm 14)

"[2] For in many things we all offend. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man."(James 3)

"[14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world." (Phil 2:14-15)

MushroomRooster

Quote from: AveMaria12 on October 19, 2022, 12:59:52 AM
True, most nude beaches aren't sex-segretated, though I think some are. I would say that the same problems would be present on a regular non-sex-segretated beach as on a nude non-sex-segregated beach. On both, you have all types. And on both, custody of the eyes are called for.

I personally keep to myself, and don't mingle with groups. I find, at least on the beaches that I've been to, there's always enough space or visual obstascles to give each person relative privacy, and most people going to these beaches are going with a spouse or by themselves, and they keep to themselves.

The allure of nudity wears off really fast, and soon it just becomes another costume, especially when you come face to face with the natural imperfections of a real body as opposed to the ones seen in porn or advertisements. I find a nude woman minding her own business less provocative than a woman wearing a bikini. The skimpy concealment has a way of playing with the imagination that nudity does not. 

I could be all wrong in this, but, from my experience, the risk is the same as at a regular beach.

Your nakedness is meant for your husband or wife, not for random people. If you're used to nudity that there's no longer an allure, you're desensitized and that is not fair for your future wife/husband. And it's so obvious why people go to nude beaches, it's because they're perverts and exhibitionists.

Melkor

I'm surprised this thread is still open. It's such a stupid question.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

drummerboy

In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

Melkor

Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

I assumed the OP was a guy for some reason.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

AveMaria12

Quote from: Melkor on October 20, 2022, 08:29:51 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

I assumed the OP was a guy for some reason.

I am a guy

Melkor

Quote from: AveMaria12 on October 20, 2022, 10:50:33 AM
Quote from: Melkor on October 20, 2022, 08:29:51 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

I assumed the OP was a guy for some reason.

I am a guy

Shame on you then. You should know your Faith better than to ask such a stupid question.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

AveMaria12

Quote from: Melkor on October 20, 2022, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: AveMaria12 on October 20, 2022, 10:50:33 AM
Quote from: Melkor on October 20, 2022, 08:29:51 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

I assumed the OP was a guy for some reason.

I am a guy

Shame on you then. You should know your Faith better than to ask such a stupid question.

I asked this question in all seriousness. Our Faith gives principles, but how they apply is not always crystal clear. That is why I am inquiring

drummerboy

Quote from: AveMaria12 on October 20, 2022, 10:50:33 AM
Quote from: Melkor on October 20, 2022, 08:29:51 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

I assumed the OP was a guy for some reason.

I am a guy

Uh-oh...did I just assume a gender?!  I'll use they/them from now on....I am so sorry :vomit: :o

AveMaria12

Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 11:49:06 PM
Quote from: AveMaria12 on October 20, 2022, 10:50:33 AM
Quote from: Melkor on October 20, 2022, 08:29:51 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

I assumed the OP was a guy for some reason.

I am a guy

Uh-oh...did I just assume a gender?!  I'll use they/them from now on....I am so sorry :vomit: :o

HAHAHA

AveMaria12

Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 11:49:06 PM
Quote from: AveMaria12 on October 20, 2022, 10:50:33 AM
Quote from: Melkor on October 20, 2022, 08:29:51 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on October 20, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
In all charity, as the OP already goes to nude beaches, I would suggest she talk to her confessor.

I assumed the OP was a guy for some reason.

I am a guy

Uh-oh...did I just assume a gender?!  I'll use they/them from now on....I am so sorry :vomit: :o

Sorry, I didn't state my pronouns

Bernadette

Sounds like an unnecessary occasion of sin, at best. Ask your confessor.
"Make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found."