Would you rather...?

[LausTibiChriste]

Had to throw in the last option just for fun...

Anyways, I know a couple westerners who are Trad and have moved to Russia because they were fed up with the woke, LGBT nonsense in their home countries (American + European).

I don't blame them at all, in fact I quite admire them as they've both made it work well and are thriving.

However, being here, the sacramental life is far from ideal and it's basically "bare minimum". For me personally, I don't know if I could make the move on that alone. I'd rather live in rural, secular France where SSPX, ICKSP and FSSP parishes are all within a 1 hour drive and offer daily Mass, rather than live in Moscow and have a weekly Mass in a damp basement in the middle of nowhere.

I know everyone is different and every family dynamic is different, so I'm curious as to which option people here would chose given the opportunity.

[Bonaventure]

Moving to Russia, Hungary, or any other supposedly nnnnnnnnnBased country in my opinion would often do more harm than good.

It's going from stage 4 cancer to stage 1 or 2.

Answered "other" since I wouldn't say Russia, Philippines, Nigeria, etc are "non woke." Just less infected.

[clau clau]

I voted for the first.

Frodo: 'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'

Gandalf: 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides that of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, in which case you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought."

[Kaesekopf]

"Grow where you are planted" is my usual take on things.

God placed me in a certain location for a certain reason.  I'm not going to travel the world to find the Goldilocks place for me. 

Also, I agree with @clau clau's post with regards to the LOTR quote. 

[The Curt Jester]

"Grow where you are planted" is my usual take on things.

God placed me in a certain location for a certain reason.  I'm not going to travel the world to find the Goldilocks place for me. 

Also, I agree with @clau clau's post with regards to the LOTR quote. 

Basically what I would say.  I don't like the state I live in, but it's where I am and it's where my family is. There aren't a whole lot of places to run these days even if I were inclined to do so.

[Bonaventure]

Moving doesn't solve your problems. It solves one and creates others. 

Been there, done that.

[Heinrich]

I picked other. I would prefer to live in 1938 Munich. Laus, I(and many others) are eagerly awaiting your anecdotes, assessments, and compare/contrasts of your trip. Also, curiously, what are the nationalities of the Society priests serving the mission there? Spasseeva.

[Michael Wilson]

I moved to Saint Mary's precisely because of the availability of the Sacraments. I would not live in a place where I could not assist at Mass and go to Confession at least once a month. And if I did live in such a place, I would be doing all that I could to get the heck out of there.
There is a second thing; I'm an old man,and (by the grace of God) I am going to die a Catholic; but if I was a young married man with children, I would be asking myself: "What is going to happen to my children when they grow up? Without the chance to regularly receive the sacraments, what kind of Catholics will they become? If they want to get married, where will they find a practicing trad Catholic spouse? Surrounded by non-Catholics, chances are they will probably end up in a mixed marriage, with a great peril to their faith, and also that of their children. Secondly what about my children with a religious vocation? Where would they go?
Thirdly, I voted the third option!

[drummerboy]

Option 2.  Non-woke society but limited access.  This woke secular culture is claiming far too many, even amongst traditional Catholics.

[EastWest7]

I voted for the third option. So far, my kids, their spouses attend my wife's very conservative (almost trad) novus ordo parish. Grandkids are in the parochial school of a somewhat liberal parish nearby. I attend either Byzantine Catholic or the local diocesan TLM (which has a limited time before Rome decides not to renew our extension, at which time I will attend a local SSPX parish).
What terrifies me (and I pray about it daily) is what the future will hold in store for my grandchildren. My kids are solidly conservative but my daughter's in-laws are quite Leftist and the mother-in-law often pushes that agenda in earshot of the grandkids. I usually keep my mouth shut except when I deem it necessary to protect my grandkids' developing world view.

As my wife and son know, my opinion is that America and the West are under God's judgment for obvious reasons.  At my wife's and my age, I don't see us moving.

 I think overall my access to the sacraments will be relatively good. However, I don't rule out my kids and grandkids having to make some very difficult choices eventually relative to keeping their Catholic faith and getting higher education, decent jobs and healthcare. Hope I am wrong.   

[LausTibiChriste]

I picked other. I would prefer to live in 1938 Munich. Laus, I(and many others) are eagerly awaiting your anecdotes, assessments, and compare/contrasts of your trip. Also, curiously, what are the nationalities of the Society priests serving the mission there? Spasseeva.

Sure thing - what exactly would you like to know?

The one priest is Russian [speaks English] and the other one, I believe, is Ukrainian (I think he's from SSJK but I'm not 100% sure- doesn't speak English)

[LausTibiChriste]

I moved to Saint Mary's precisely because of the availability of the Sacraments. I would not live in a place where I could not assist at Mass and go to Confession at least once a month. And if I did live in such a place, I would be doing all that I could to get the heck out of there.
There is a second thing; I'm an old man,and (by the grace of God) I am going to die a Catholic; but if I was a young married man with children, I would be asking myself: "What is going to happen to my children when they grow up? Without the chance to regularly receive the sacraments, what kind of Catholics will they become? If they want to get married, where will they find a practicing trad Catholic spouse? Surrounded by non-Catholics, chances are they will probably end up in a mixed marriage, with a great peril to their faith, and also that of their children. Secondly what about my children with a religious vocation? Where would they go?
Thirdly, I voted the third option!

I almost wonder if it would be sinful putting my kids into a society that is so heavily Orthodox (and by extension anti-Catholic). The ease to which they could switch to Orthodoxy would be huge, and that would be on me.

[queen.saints]

I moved to Saint Mary's precisely because of the availability of the Sacraments. I would not live in a place where I could not assist at Mass and go to Confession at least once a month. And if I did live in such a place, I would be doing all that I could to get the heck out of there.
There is a second thing; I'm an old man,and (by the grace of God) I am going to die a Catholic; but if I was a young married man with children, I would be asking myself: "What is going to happen to my children when they grow up? Without the chance to regularly receive the sacraments, what kind of Catholics will they become? If they want to get married, where will they find a practicing trad Catholic spouse? Surrounded by non-Catholics, chances are they will probably end up in a mixed marriage, with a great peril to their faith, and also that of their children. Secondly what about my children with a religious vocation? Where would they go?
Thirdly, I voted the third option!

I almost wonder if it would be sinful putting my kids into a society that is so heavily Orthodox (and by extension anti-Catholic). The ease to which they could switch to Orthodoxy would be huge, and that would be on me.

After moving to a Catholic country, I've seen more how much my mind was warped and poisoned by the Protestantism in America. Even though this country would look quite corrupted at first glance, when you're on the inside you see that there is a totally different mindset that is fundamentally influenced by Catholicism.

One area this has been such a blessing in has been marriage and raising children.

In America (which I deeply love and which has many other good qualities) there is a pervasive atmosphere of antagonism between men and women.

The MGTOW and most of the trad-wife movement is just taking a different side in what is fundamentally a bitter and hateful fight.

There is a pervasive fear that your marriage could irreparably break down and there's nothing you or God can do about it.
 

There's a pervasive fear that your children could grow up to hate you and abandon the Faith no matter your best efforts or intentions.

I recently mentioned this to a random driver asking about moving to America
and he agreed and said he did actually notice the same thing when he was living in England and it's true that it's not the case here.

Here, at least in this part, there's usually an underlying love and trust between men and women, even during the most difficult moments, just like Catholicism teaches there should be.

There's an assumption that your marriage will be very happy and last a lifetime, just like God promised you on your Catholic wedding day that it can and should be.

There's an assumption that children will at least always love their mother for life, and usually their father. And while they may lose the Faith, it's often because there were not the best efforts or intentions somewhere along the line, but this love can be a powerful force helping them not go very far and in eventually coming back.

And it's so amazing to think that I could have been living this way my whole life if I had actually been really listening to what the Catholic Church was saying all along like I should have. 

[LausTibiChriste]

I moved to Saint Mary's precisely because of the availability of the Sacraments. I would not live in a place where I could not assist at Mass and go to Confession at least once a month. And if I did live in such a place, I would be doing all that I could to get the heck out of there.
There is a second thing; I'm an old man,and (by the grace of God) I am going to die a Catholic; but if I was a young married man with children, I would be asking myself: "What is going to happen to my children when they grow up? Without the chance to regularly receive the sacraments, what kind of Catholics will they become? If they want to get married, where will they find a practicing trad Catholic spouse? Surrounded by non-Catholics, chances are they will probably end up in a mixed marriage, with a great peril to their faith, and also that of their children. Secondly what about my children with a religious vocation? Where would they go?
Thirdly, I voted the third option!

I almost wonder if it would be sinful putting my kids into a society that is so heavily Orthodox (and by extension anti-Catholic). The ease to which they could switch to Orthodoxy would be huge, and that would be on me.

After moving to a Catholic country, I've seen more how much my mind was warped and poisoned by the Protestantism in America. Even though this country would look quite corrupted at first glance, when you're on the inside you see that there is a totally different mindset that is fundamentally influenced by Catholicism.

One area this has been such a blessing in has been marriage and raising children.

In America (which I deeply love and which has many other good qualities) there is a pervasive atmosphere of antagonism between men and women.

The MGTOW and most of the trad-wife movement is just taking a different side in what is fundamentally a bitter and hateful fight.

There is a pervasive fear that your marriage could irreparably break down and there's nothing you or God can do about it.
 

There's a pervasive fear that your children could grow up to hate you and abandon the Faith no matter your best efforts or intentions.

I recently mentioned this to a random driver asking about moving to America
and he agreed and said he did actually notice the same thing when he was living in England and it's true that it's not the case here.

Here, at least in this part, there's usually an underlying love and trust between men and women, even during the most difficult moments, just like Catholicism teaches there should be.

There's an assumption that your marriage will be happy and last a lifetime, just like God promised you on your Catholic wedding day that it can and should.

There's an assumption that children will at least always love their mother for life, and usually their father. And while they may lose the Faith, it's often because there were not the best efforts or intentions somewhere along the line, but this love can be a powerful force helping them not go very far and in eventually coming back.

And it's so amazing to think that I could have been living this way my whole life if I had actually been really listening to what the Catholic Church was saying all along like I should have. 

Agreed.

And even if some of those post-Catholic countries are now dumps, they're still FULL of Catholicism EVERYWHERE. I'm talking shrines on the road side, icons of Mary on the buildings, stores closed on Sundays, Churches everywhere etc.

Depends on your personality I guess, but for me that stuff is extremely beneficial.

[queen.saints]

Wow, yeah, excellent point as well.

You can pick up some miraculous water on your way home from the grocery store or stop and pray at a place where there's real martyrs' blood spilled on your family walk.