The importance of teaching children that the Novus Ordo is bad.

[Prayerful]

Teaching the Ten Commandments, prayers and how to reverently hear Mass, how we are helpless without God's aid, translating into making a Christian gentleman, are hard enough things to do. I couldn't possible see any reasonable didactive purpose in somehow trying to teach that the Novus Ordo Missae has problems. That might be a matter somehow for a priest or brother who might have delve into religious controversy, but it cannot possibly be something appropriate for a child or youth. The idea sounds horrifying.

[Miriam_M]

In most cases, a child will encounter somewhere, somehow, a friend or new acquaintance whose family attends the N.O.  The closer the child is to being a teen, the likelier this will become unless the parents rigidly enforce the isolation of their children from any-but-trad influences altogether.  If the child plays a sport, for example, or plays in a musical ensemble, it will be difficult to avoid completely an interface with the N.O. 

With that acquaintance the subject of "which church do you go to?" may come up. I would not recommend alienating a child from others by making sure that my own child harbors animosity toward the admittedly inferior form.  Better that --as with adults-- the one unacquainted with the Latin Mass be introduced to it in a positive manner.  The worst that can happen is that the newcomer will agreed to attend but then be unmoved/unpersuaded from his current parish and cease interest in the TLM.  But it will be less likely that he will even investigate it if he is made to feel that his trad friend declares his N.O. Mass attendance to be "bad."

So far, what I have seen is that the majority of new visitors to the Latin Mass (of any age) appreciate it, and/or are curious to learn more, and/or wish to switch. But setting a positive tone for that possibility is key, i.m.e.  We even had a situation a few years ago wherein the reputation of our First Communions was so locally legendary that inquirers from N.O. parishes wished to attend our catechesis, formation, and the sacrament itself, which they were allowed to do, although their parents were informed about the differences between the two rites and catechesis and the necessity of adhering to both.

When those visiting First Communicants returned to their N.O. parishes, they exclaimed about what they had received in a trad environment, and they also continued to insist, firmly, on COTT in their home parishes. Their remarks, not surprisingly, caused the N.O. parishioners to feel envious and curious.

Thus, my own reasoning for withholding condemnation of the N.O. Mass from children would be in the interest of evangelization/conversion.

[christulsa]

I'll chime in, if I may, though my wife and I have not been blessed with children.  I probably wouldn't tell them about the NO in detail until they are old enough to process it, so as not to scandalize them.  Like waiting to tell them about the evils of premarital sex and drugs.  I'd work it into their home school religion course say around age 16, giving apologetics about false religions, since the Novus Ordo is a false religion.  Since the Novus Ordo is equivalent to Vatican II and the New Mass, I would be forced, when asked why we prefer the SSPX, to explain the difference between the SSPX and Ecclesia Dei societies, who formally accept the NO as legitimate (though many of the priests and laity at the individual don't). 

[Miriam_M]

I was probably limiting my argument to discussion of the Mass alone, rather than all of the bad theology contributing to and flowing from the N.O.M.  Myself, I would prefer to have the trad priest in question handle the important theological differences within a trad catechesis environment as the child develops intellectually and spiritually, with myself, as a parent, merely reinforcing the priest's teaching.  I would trust a well-trained priest to frame it, initially, in a better way than I might (until the child is old enough to need to know more differences and ready to understand them, such as -- yes -- late teens).

[diaduit]

My kids went to a Catholic school until this year and would have been in frequent contact with N O children and masses.  WE have extended family too so with weddings, baptisms, communions etc , it is unfortunately part of our life.
I have always pointed out the differences between our mass and N O mass from about the age of 7 and they have grown up seeing that mass through my eyes if you like and they have volunteered to me their sadness at seeing people receive Communion as if it were a coin and not blessing themselves, sadness at the constant chatter of people attending, lack of knowledge of their peers and lack of interest in understanding etc.

I don't know if I did write or wrong but I made the best use of what was in our life at that time and my kids are well versed just how insipid a N O mass is.  I would discuss at length the wrongs of it but nothing like seeing it first hand for them to be wide eyed at it.  Obviously I avoided as much as I could and my kids were told never to take communion during a school mass.

[Stubborn]

Teaching the Ten Commandments, prayers and how to reverently hear Mass, how we are helpless without God's aid, translating into making a Christian gentleman, are hard enough things to do. I couldn't possible see any reasonable didactive purpose in somehow trying to teach that the Novus Ordo Missae has problems. That might be a matter somehow for a priest or brother who might have delve into religious controversy, but it cannot possibly be something appropriate for a child or youth. The idea sounds horrifying.

Yep.

As children through the infancy of the crisis, all we children really knew through our parents was it was bad, to not go there, to not be curious and look into it, to not read their writings, to avoid the NO no matter what, to use the NO as a tool to learn what not to do, to only go to the TLM and to learn the traditional faith etc., which some of us children who still have the faith actually did. Heck, 99.5% of the Catholic population at that time could not fully explain it, but they knew it had to be avoided.

For me personally, it wasn't until +40 years later in 2006 when I read The Great Sacrilege that I understood why we were told to never go and thankfully never went.     

The jist of it is, children really need no explanations - which for the most part, they won't understand anyway. What children need, is to be told what to do and what not to do - little or no explanation should suffice - but if they ask questions, give them answers they will understand.

[GiftOfGod]

I'll chime in, if I may, though my wife and I have not been blessed with children.  I probably wouldn't tell them about the NO in detail until they are old enough to process it, so as not to scandalize them.  Like waiting to tell them about the evils of premarital sex and drugs.  I'd work it into their home school religion course say around age 16, giving apologetics about false religions, since the Novus Ordo is a false religion.  Since the Novus Ordo is equivalent to Vatican II and the New Mass, I would be forced, when asked why we prefer the SSPX, to explain the difference between the SSPX and Ecclesia Dei societies, who formally accept the NO as legitimate (though many of the priests and laity at the individual don't).

I agree about age-appropriateness but age 16 is way too late. By that time, they have already learned about the NO from passing NO church buildings, having NO classmates, friends, neighbors, and relatives. It's like waiting until age 16 to teach about sex. Too late. By that time, they will already know but not from you or another good source. Just like how I'd rather teach my son about the birds and the bees at age 10, rather than some neighbor kid showing him porn at age 13, I'd rather teach my son about the NO at age 5 than at age 10 have a NO neighbor kid tell him how highly she thinks of the local NO parish Saint John Paul the Great and its priest Fr. Truvada.

My kids went to a Catholic school until this year and would have been in frequent contact with N O children and masses.  WE have extended family too so with weddings, baptisms, communions etc , it is unfortunately part of our life.

Why are you not committed to never attending the New Mass?

[diaduit]

I'll chime in, if I may, though my wife and I have not been blessed with children.  I probably wouldn't tell them about the NO in detail until they are old enough to process it, so as not to scandalize them.  Like waiting to tell them about the evils of premarital sex and drugs.  I'd work it into their home school religion course say around age 16, giving apologetics about false religions, since the Novus Ordo is a false religion.  Since the Novus Ordo is equivalent to Vatican II and the New Mass, I would be forced, when asked why we prefer the SSPX, to explain the difference between the SSPX and Ecclesia Dei societies, who formally accept the NO as legitimate (though many of the priests and laity at the individual don't).

I agree about age-appropriateness but age 16 is way too late. By that time, they have already learned about the NO from passing NO church buildings, having NO classmates, friends, neighbors, and relatives. It's like waiting until age 16 to teach about sex. Too late. By that time, they will already know but not from you or another good source. Just like how I'd rather teach my son about the birds and the bees at age 10, rather than some neighbor kid showing him porn at age 13, I'd rather teach my son about the NO at age 5 than at age 10 have a NO neighbor kid tell him how highly she thinks of the local NO parish Saint John Paul the Great and its priest Fr. Truvada.

My kids went to a Catholic school until this year and would have been in frequent contact with N O children and masses.  WE have extended family too so with weddings, baptisms, communions etc , it is unfortunately part of our life.

Why are you not committed to never attending the New Mass?

You can't escape it here in Ireland. Not with family, friends and neighbours weddings, funerals etc. Most schools are under Catholic patronage where the local priest sits on the Board of management, the mass is incorporated into the school day on different feast days and Sacraments. 

[Jayne]

Why are you not committed to never attending the New Mass?

Are you familiar with the distinction that SSPX makes between attending and participating in the NO?  I could try track down a description if you are interested.  This is the way they handle the issue of occasionally attending weddings, funerals, etc.

[GiftOfGod]

Why are you not committed to never attending the New Mass?

Are you familiar with the distinction that SSPX makes between attending and participating in the NO?  I could try track down a description if you are interested.  This is the way they handle the issue of occasionally attending weddings, funerals, etc.

That might be the official line but some SSPX priests and many laity consider it a sin to attend the NO. I think the official line is softer in the hopes that the Vatican will give them credit for it.

[Jayne]

Why are you not committed to never attending the New Mass?

Are you familiar with the distinction that SSPX makes between attending and participating in the NO?  I could try track down a description if you are interested.  This is the way they handle the issue of occasionally attending weddings, funerals, etc.

That might be the official line but some SSPX priests and many laity consider it a sin to attend the NO. I think the official line is softer in the hopes that the Vatican will give them credit for it.

I don't think the official line on this has softened.  Here is a quote from an article written in 1994 https://sspx.org/en/attendance-todays-sunday-masses:

This also demands total abstention from attending at the New Mass; a passive attendance is tolerated for a serious reason "to render honor or for a polite obligation" (as for example for the marriage or funeral of a relative or friend), "as long as there is no peril of perversion and of scandal."

In context, it is clear that the NO is considered as spiritually dangerous and something to be avoided.  However, "passive attendance" was tolerated under certain circumstances, even though, attendance has always been considered far from ideal and potentially sinful. I don't think that this has changed.

Where I have noticed softening is in the teaching about "indult Masses" (which are technically not based on an Indult now, but on Summorum Pontificum).  In older articles these were treated as equally as bad as the Novus Ordo, whereas now it is determined on a case by case basis.  Some may be acceptable.

Like you, I have the impression that much of what is published now is determined by hopes for approval from Rome.

[GiftOfGod]

Where I have noticed softening is in the teaching about "indult Masses" (which are technically not based on an Indult now, but on Summorum Pontificum).

Fr. Cekada's (RIP) term for them is "Motu Masses". He also coined other terms such as Indulterer, Recognize and Resist, NewChurch, FrankenChurch, and probably others. Just a quick lesson in Tradom etymology.

[Jayne]

Where I have noticed softening is in the teaching about "indult Masses" (which are technically not based on an Indult now, but on Summorum Pontificum).

Fr. Cekada's (RIP) term for them is "Motu Masses". He also coined other terms such as Indulterer, Recognize and Resist, NewChurch, FrankenChurch, and probably others. Just a quick lesson in Tradom etymology.

He really had a gift for coming up with memorable and evocative expressions.  He will be missed for a long time.

[queen.saints]

Teaching the Ten Commandments, prayers and how to reverently hear Mass, how we are helpless without God's aid, translating into making a Christian gentleman, are hard enough things to do. I couldn't possible see any reasonable didactive purpose in somehow trying to teach that the Novus Ordo Missae has problems. That might be a matter somehow for a priest or brother who might have delve into religious controversy, but it cannot possibly be something appropriate for a child or youth. The idea sounds horrifying.

God puts very little children to very difficult tests all the time. There are 2 and 3 year old martyrs who were able to answer the theological questions of their persecutors.


A 4 year old boy was recently taken away by his mother, told that his holy traditional Catholic relatives were bad, and forced to start going to the Novus Ordo.

After his first Novus Ordo Mass, he was asked what he thought of it. He said,

"Fake Mass. Fake priest."

[mikemac]

Why are you not committed to never attending the New Mass?

Are you familiar with the distinction that SSPX makes between attending and participating in the NO?  I could try track down a description if you are interested.  This is the way they handle the issue of occasionally attending weddings, funerals, etc.

That might be the official line but some SSPX priests and many laity consider it a sin to attend the NO. I think the official line is softer in the hopes that the Vatican will give them credit for it.

I don't think the official line on this has softened.  Here is a quote from an article written in 1994 https://sspx.org/en/attendance-todays-sunday-masses:

This also demands total abstention from attending at the New Mass; a passive attendance is tolerated for a serious reason "to render honor or for a polite obligation" (as for example for the marriage or funeral of a relative or friend), "as long as there is no peril of perversion and of scandal."

In context, it is clear that the NO is considered as spiritually dangerous and something to be avoided.  However, "passive attendance" was tolerated under certain circumstances, even though, attendance has always been considered far from ideal and potentially sinful. I don't think that this has changed.

Where I have noticed softening is in the teaching about "indult Masses" (which are technically not based on an Indult now, but on Summorum Pontificum).  In older articles these were treated as equally as bad as the Novus Ordo, whereas now it is determined on a case by case basis.  Some may be acceptable.

Like you, I have the impression that much of what is published now is determined by hopes for approval from Rome.

It's not the SSPX Church.  It's the Catholic Church.  Many traditional priests would disagree with what is being said here, in fact many may even call it heretical.