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Questions about the sanctity of the Roman Catholic Church

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Borygo:
The Catholic Church is to be distinguished by "sanctity". It is true that it is not understood in this way that all RCC members are or will be saints, but it is stressed that:
- many Catholics have actually practiced the Christian virtues to a heroic degree.
- RCC has powerful means of sanctification and salvation, for example in the form of sacraments, various indulgences, and the intercessory prayer of the Blessed Sacrament. Virgin Mary and Saints, etc.
- in comparison with the National Commission, other religions (especially Protestant) are deprived of many of these means of sanctification and salvation.

However, this argument is extremely poor when we realize that:
- yes, in the history of the RCC, it was pronounced against several thousand of its members that they practiced Christian virtues to a heroic degree, but without much of a problem it could be said of thousands of followers of various Protestant communities. Perhaps, in a very strict sense, it would be a bit difficult for the simple reason that Protestant denominations do not envisage bringing their individual members "to the glory of the altars" and therefore do not have the habit of keeping such meticulous documentation on the details of their lives, but that, many Protestants could be shown, for example
• they died a martyr's death;
• they were severely persecuted, and yet they have kept their faith in Christ and a clear conscience; they went on a mission where, in the midst of many extreme inconveniences, they preached faith in Jesus;
• they sacrificed themselves for their neighbors, even giving their lives for them, handing out their property to the poor, etc.
• they zealously pursued other Christian virtues (eg purity, honesty, truthfulness) despite the great difficulties associated with it. In the case of both currents of Christianity (ie Catholicism and Protestantism), examples of such heroic even behaviors relate to a relatively small number of their supporters (I think that it is legitimate to speak about numbers ranging from 0.001 to 0.1 percent).

 However, when we look at the moral impact of both religions on the wider, or social, scale, culture, mentality of individual countries and communities, we see that historically speaking, the occurrence of various sins and wickedness was clearly more frequent in Catholic countries and communities than Protestant example. For example, in countries and traditionally Catholics, there were usually more:
- consent to various forms of sexual promiscuity (prostitution, adultery), immodesty (dances and costumes present in Catholic countries were usually more bold, confidential, sensual, sumptuous), alcohol abuse
- crime and corruption (eg in the USA, probably in the 1940s or 1950s, Catholics accounted for about 50 percent of the prison population, despite the fact that there were 15 percent of them in the entire community of that country).
- support for the left (vide: popularity of the so-called liberation theology in Latin America, 30 or 50 percent of voters for the communist party in Italy, the fact that communists, socialists and anarchists won the majority of votes in Spain in the 1930s).
 - syncretism and occultism (and again "bowing" traditionally Catholic Latin American countries with long-standing cults of voo doo, santerii, macauba and the like).

In the last 50 years, this distinct difference in the moral level of both types of countries has blurred somewhat (in some respects even for the benefit of some Catholic countries), but it does not change the historical regularity mentioned by me. How to explain the above facts, if indeed the Catholic Church is true, and the Protestant is heretical falsehood?

Sorry for my poor English.

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez:

--- Quote from: Borygo on October 22, 2021, 10:42:55 AM ---Protestants could be shown, for example
• they died a martyr's death;

--- End quote ---

There's no such thing as a Protestant martyr.  The Council of Florence spoke on this definitively.


--- Quote from: Borygo on October 22, 2021, 10:42:55 AM ---• they were severely persecuted, and yet they have kept their faith in Christ and a clear conscience; they went on a mission where, in the midst of many extreme inconveniences, they preached faith in Jesus;

--- End quote ---

Protestants preach faith in a counterfeit Christ, one who did not found an indefectible Church and who did not institute the Sacraments for our salvation.  They do not believe in the same Christ whom we worship.


--- Quote from: Borygo on October 22, 2021, 10:42:55 AM ---• they sacrificed themselves for their neighbors, even giving their lives for them, handing out their property to the poor, etc.

--- End quote ---

This is not unique to Christians.


--- Quote from: Borygo on October 22, 2021, 10:42:55 AM ---• they zealously pursued other Christian virtues (eg purity, honesty, truthfulness) despite the great difficulties associated with it. In the case of both currents of Christianity (ie Catholicism and Protestantism), examples of such heroic even behaviors relate to a relatively small number of their supporters (I think that it is legitimate to speak about numbers ranging from 0.001 to 0.1 percent).

--- End quote ---

These virtues are not unique to Christians.


--- Quote from: Borygo on October 22, 2021, 10:42:55 AM --- However, when we look at the moral impact of both religions on the wider, or social, scale, culture, mentality of individual countries and communities, we see that historically speaking, the occurrence of various sins and wickedness was clearly more frequent in Catholic countries and communities than Protestant example. For example, in countries and traditionally Catholics, there were usually more:
- consent to various forms of sexual promiscuity (prostitution, adultery), immodesty (dances and costumes present in Catholic countries were usually more bold, confidential, sensual, sumptuous), alcohol abuse
- crime and corruption (eg in the USA, probably in the 1940s or 1950s, Catholics accounted for about 50 percent of the prison population, despite the fact that there were 15 percent of them in the entire community of that country).
- support for the left (vide: popularity of the so-called liberation theology in Latin America, 30 or 50 percent of voters for the communist party in Italy, the fact that communists, socialists and anarchists won the majority of votes in Spain in the 1930s).
 - syncretism and occultism (and again "bowing" traditionally Catholic Latin American countries with long-standing cults of voo doo, santerii, macauba and the like).

--- End quote ---

Sin happens.  The problem of evil is a difficult one.

Borygo:

--- Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on October 22, 2021, 11:20:13 AM ---
--- Quote from: Borygo on October 22, 2021, 10:42:55 AM ---Protestants could be shown, for example
• they died a martyr's death;

--- End quote ---

There's no such thing as a Protestant martyr.  The Council of Florence spoke on this definitively.
--- End quote ---

Only a formal heretic cannot be a true martyr. Not every Protestant is a formal heretic. Moreover, it is debatable whether even the presumption of formal heresy should be accepted among adult Protestants in general.



Borygo:

--- Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on October 22, 2021, 11:20:13 AM ---

Sin happens.  The problem of evil is a difficult one.

--- End quote ---

It's not that sin does happen. The point is that among the nations and Catholic communities, there seemed to be many more sins.

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez:

--- Quote from: Borygo on October 22, 2021, 11:31:54 AM ---It's not that sin does happen. The point is that among the nations and Catholic communities, there seemed to be many more sins.

--- End quote ---

Jews don’t recognize Jesus, Protestants don’t recognize the Pope, and Baptists don’t recognize one another in the liquor store.

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