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Holy Unia: is Catholic-Orthodox union possible this century?

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--- Quote from: Xavier on December 06, 2018, 03:12:04 AM ---The dream of restoring full union between the Western and Eastern Churches captured the attention and spurred the studies and labors of so many wise and holy men and women among Greeks and Latins alike. The Council of Florence shows us that the traditional Fathers of that Council were very much open to receiving the representatives of the Greek and Russian Churches warmly and welcoming them kindly. And in their turn, the Greek representatives including Bp. Mark of Ephesus treated the Holy Father Pope Eugene with filial respect. So let's see if we can start from there again.

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The Council of Florence happened due to politics; where the Byzantine Emperor began panicking because the Ottoman Empire was surrounding his territory, and asked for Roman support, which would only be given if reunion was achieved. So the Byzantine Emperor sent the Bishops there along with himself, but when he saw that the talks weren't getting that far, he explicitly cut some of the debates short (including Purgatory) and forbade discussion of others (Created / Uncreated Grace), not letting them flourish, and pressured the Bishops to sign on whatever Rome demanded.

And when that happened, the Russian Church when they heard the results of Florence, excommunicated Constantinople for heresy, their own Bishops who signed it, and the Ottomans took over Byzantium anyways, to which afterwards Constantinople, not having such political pressure, apologized and anathematized Florence.

If there wasn't such pressure, and the dialogues actually flourished, maybe something could have happened. But political pressure shouldn't be the backdrop of legitimate dialogue.

Vetus Ordo:

--- Quote from: TheReturnofLive on December 06, 2018, 07:26:05 PM ---Nobody likes to be reminded of when the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth put a gun up to Ukraine's head and said "Do you want to become Catholic?"
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Actually, the PLC was the country where you could enjoy most religious freedom in pre-Enlightenment Europe. Ever since the Warsaw Confederation, Commonwealth citizens had the legal right to worship freely, so much so that the country became a renowned refuge for all sorts of religious minorities.


--- Quote from: aquinas138 on December 06, 2018, 11:59:05 AM ---Quite honestly, it all boils down to the papacy. Either the pope is what the Catholic Church says he is, and thus the Orthodox must submit to his decrees, or else the papal claims are lies and indeed heresies, and the Roman Church has centuries of hubristic arrogance for which to atone. Personally, short of miraculous intervention, I don't think the schism will be healed this side of eternity.

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May I present Exhibit A for the prosecution, Your Honor?  It is quite long (over 1000 pages) so I beg Your Honor's and the jury's indulgence.  It is known as the Second Vatican Council.


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