My view of the rosary

Started by youngfogey, October 04, 2022, 11:01:44 AM

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youngfogey

October 04, 2022, 11:01:44 AM
The rosary is an okay prayer aid, a substitute for the psalms, by and for the Latin Church that works for some people.

Don't promote it in the Eastern rites. They have their own practices.
What I believe: on being a Catholic
The Orthodox tradition: the Greek Catholic option

"Beeler: you have become a joke. Your Catholicer-than-thou, anti-Orthodox, capitalist lackey, not-so-young fogey shtick is old old old, just as you like it." — Daniel Nichols

Your resident Protestant troll! Seriously, I'm fervently moderate, too conservative for the Novus Ordo and too liberal for the traditionalist movement. I love and defend the TLM but respect all who are acting in good faith and I believe they can be saved.

Justin Martyr

#1
October 04, 2022, 12:04:03 PM Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 02:43:16 PM by Justin Martyr
Quote from: youngfogey on October 04, 2022, 11:01:44 AM
The rosary is an okay prayer aid, a substitute for the psalms, by and for the Latin Church that works for some people.

Don't promote it in the Eastern rites. They have their own practices.

Yeah, why push the Rosary on them when they already have the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos?
The least departure from Tradition leads to a scorning of every dogma of the Faith.
St. Photios the Great, Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs

CANON I: As for all persons who dare to violate the definition of the holy and great Synod convened in Nicaea in the presence of Eusebeia, the consort of the most God-beloved Emperor Constantine, concerning the holy festival of the soterial Pascha, we decree that they be excluded from Communion and be outcasts from the Church if they persist more captiously in objecting to the decisions that have been made as most fitting in regard thereto; and let these things be said with reference to laymen. But if any of the person occupying prominent positions in the Church, such as a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, after the adoption of this definition, should dare to insist upon having his own way, to the perversion of the laity, and to the disturbance of the church, and upon celebrating Pascha along with the Jews, the holy Synod has hence judged that person to be an alien to the Church, on the ground that he has not only become guilty of sin by himself, but has also been the cause of corruption and perversion among the multitude. Accordingly, it not only deposes such persons from the liturgy, but also those who dare to commune with them after their deposition. Moreover, those who have been deposed are to be deprived of the external honor too of which the holy Canon and God's priesthood have partaken.
The Council of Antioch 341, recieved by the Council of Chalcedon

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

youngfogey

#2
October 04, 2022, 01:16:20 PM
The Prayer Rule of the Theotokos is nearly unknown among the Orthodox and looks suspiciously like a disguised rosary anyway. Nothing wrong with it theologically. The Orthodox rite - a rite isn't just rules and a style of church service but a whole culture, a complete school of Christian thought and living* - has not only the chotki/prayer rope, on which I use many Jesus Prayers and 10 "Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of Gods" (the rite's version of the Hail Mary), but long canons and akathists as well as shorter prayers from the services, such as "It is truly meet to bless thee" (???????? ????).

*Which Bergoglio and his churchmen are trying to take away from TLMers. It won't work - see, there's this thing called the Internet...
What I believe: on being a Catholic
The Orthodox tradition: the Greek Catholic option

"Beeler: you have become a joke. Your Catholicer-than-thou, anti-Orthodox, capitalist lackey, not-so-young fogey shtick is old old old, just as you like it." — Daniel Nichols

Your resident Protestant troll! Seriously, I'm fervently moderate, too conservative for the Novus Ordo and too liberal for the traditionalist movement. I love and defend the TLM but respect all who are acting in good faith and I believe they can be saved.

Greg

#3
October 04, 2022, 01:23:08 PM
If Fatima is true then the eastern rites are missing a trick.  The Rosary appears to be CORE to the apparitionists.

It is sold as fundamental to salavation.

Not something one can ignore.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Kaesekopf

#4
October 04, 2022, 01:24:48 PM
I'm always astounded by people who find the Eastern Rites relevant outside remarkably tiny ethnic enclaves.  :lol:
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.

youngfogey

#5
October 04, 2022, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Greg on October 04, 2022, 01:23:08 PM
The Rosary appears to be CORE to the apparitionists.

It is sold as fundamental to salavation.

That's just it: the apparitionists are WRONG. It's not fundamental to salvation. Not everything pious and old-timey sounding is true.
What I believe: on being a Catholic
The Orthodox tradition: the Greek Catholic option

"Beeler: you have become a joke. Your Catholicer-than-thou, anti-Orthodox, capitalist lackey, not-so-young fogey shtick is old old old, just as you like it." — Daniel Nichols

Your resident Protestant troll! Seriously, I'm fervently moderate, too conservative for the Novus Ordo and too liberal for the traditionalist movement. I love and defend the TLM but respect all who are acting in good faith and I believe they can be saved.

youngfogey

#6
October 04, 2022, 01:45:33 PM
Quote from: Kaesekopf on October 04, 2022, 01:24:48 PM
I'm always astounded by people who find the Eastern Rites relevant outside remarkably tiny ethnic enclaves.  :lol:

The preceding post might have been bait but anyway. The Orthodox ritual tradition and spirituality are my home. It has everything true I learnt as a Catholic Anglican: scripture including psalm-reading and of course the gospel, creed, the first seven great church councils, sacraments, and traditional liturgical worship in forms that make sense and are far less damaged if at all than the ordinary form of the Roman Rite. If you want to laugh that off as ethnic-only, that's your loss.
What I believe: on being a Catholic
The Orthodox tradition: the Greek Catholic option

"Beeler: you have become a joke. Your Catholicer-than-thou, anti-Orthodox, capitalist lackey, not-so-young fogey shtick is old old old, just as you like it." — Daniel Nichols

Your resident Protestant troll! Seriously, I'm fervently moderate, too conservative for the Novus Ordo and too liberal for the traditionalist movement. I love and defend the TLM but respect all who are acting in good faith and I believe they can be saved.

Melkor

#7
October 04, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Your view on the Rosary is completely irrelevant and pointless. An 'okay' prayer aid? Kindly keep your mediocre and ill-informed opinions to yourself. The Rosary is the greatest thing one can do spiritually, outside of assisting at Holy Mass.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

youngfogey

#8
October 04, 2022, 02:03:18 PM
Quote from: Melkor on October 04, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Your view on the Rosary is completely irrelevant and pointless. An 'okay' prayer aid? Kindly keep your mediocre and ill-informed opinions to yourself. The Rosary is the greatest thing one can do spiritually, outside of assisting at Holy Mass.

Thank you. That's all only your opinion. I'm standing on rock-solid doctrine, what the church really teaches, so I don't understand Catholics' resistance to my statement.
What I believe: on being a Catholic
The Orthodox tradition: the Greek Catholic option

"Beeler: you have become a joke. Your Catholicer-than-thou, anti-Orthodox, capitalist lackey, not-so-young fogey shtick is old old old, just as you like it." — Daniel Nichols

Your resident Protestant troll! Seriously, I'm fervently moderate, too conservative for the Novus Ordo and too liberal for the traditionalist movement. I love and defend the TLM but respect all who are acting in good faith and I believe they can be saved.

Instaurare omnia

#9
October 04, 2022, 02:12:27 PM
Quote from: youngfogey on October 04, 2022, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Greg on October 04, 2022, 01:23:08 PM
The Rosary appears to be CORE to the apparitionists.

It is sold as fundamental to salavation.

That's just it: the apparitionists are WRONG. It's not fundamental to salvation. Not everything pious and old-timey sounding is true.


The Rosary didn't originate with Fatima. St. Louis de Montfort wrote The Secret of the Rosary a good three centuries ago, and St. Dominic introduced the practice nine centuries ago. Neither stated that the Rosary is fundamental to salvation. But if a Catholic were to do only the bare minimum that the Church says is necessary to remain a Catholic, odds are that salvation would not be reached so easily. For that reason, The Secret of the Rosary urges the practice as a way to become more focused in one's faith and more open to the Lord's graces than one would be otherwise. I'm not talking about rote and perfunctory or absent-minded recitation. I'm talking about the practice of using the Rosary every day as a device to recall the Mysteries that are detailed in Scripture.

The Rosary gets knocked a lot as an old lady's attachment. If so, why then has a Men's Rosary movement grown recently, especially in places around the world where society has become so dismissive of traditional Catholicism?
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem, frustra vigilat qui custodit eam (Psalm 126:2).
Benedicite, montes et colles, Domino: benedicite universa germinantia in terra, Domino (Daniel 3:75-76).
Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation (Psalm 145:2-3).

Lynne

#10
October 04, 2022, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: Instaurare omnia on October 04, 2022, 02:12:27 PM

The Rosary gets knocked a lot as an old lady's attachment. If so, why then has a Men's Rosary movement grown recently, especially in places around the world where society has become so dismissive of traditional Catholicism?

That's a beautiful thing to see...
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael's Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    "My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you're supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen"

Jmartyr

#11
October 04, 2022, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: youngfogey on October 04, 2022, 11:01:44 AM
The rosary is an okay prayer aid, a substitute for the psalms, by and for the Latin Church that works for some people.

Don't promote it in the Eastern rites. They have their own practices.
Why the big letters. Trying to be a provocateur?
"If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators." - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
" A false church cannot have a true mission." - St. Francis De Sales
" The way is open for us to deprive councils of their authority, contradict their acts freely, and profess confidently, whatever SEEMS to be true. " - Martin Luther

Lynne

#12
October 04, 2022, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: Jmartyr on October 04, 2022, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: youngfogey on October 04, 2022, 11:01:44 AM
The rosary is an okay prayer aid, a substitute for the psalms, by and for the Latin Church that works for some people.

Don't promote it in the Eastern rites. They have their own practices.
QuoteWhy the big letters. Trying to be a provocateur?

Ignore is an underrated feature.  :)
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael's Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    "My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you're supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen"

Justin Martyr

#13
October 04, 2022, 02:43:00 PM
Quote from: youngfogey on October 04, 2022, 01:16:20 PM
The Prayer Rule of the Theotokos is nearly unknown among the Orthodox and looks suspiciously like a disguised rosary anyway. Nothing wrong with it theologically. The Orthodox rite - a rite isn't just rules and a style of church service but a whole culture, a complete school of Christian thought and living* - has not only the chotki/prayer rope, on which I use many Jesus Prayers and 10 "Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of Gods" (the rite's version of the Hail Mary), but long canons and akathists as well as shorter prayers from the services, such as "It is truly meet to bless thee" (???????? ????).

*Which Bergoglio and his churchmen are trying to take away from TLMers. It won't work - see, there's this thing called the Internet...

Is it? Most Russian Orthodox I've interacted with are familiar with it.
The least departure from Tradition leads to a scorning of every dogma of the Faith.
St. Photios the Great, Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs

CANON I: As for all persons who dare to violate the definition of the holy and great Synod convened in Nicaea in the presence of Eusebeia, the consort of the most God-beloved Emperor Constantine, concerning the holy festival of the soterial Pascha, we decree that they be excluded from Communion and be outcasts from the Church if they persist more captiously in objecting to the decisions that have been made as most fitting in regard thereto; and let these things be said with reference to laymen. But if any of the person occupying prominent positions in the Church, such as a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, after the adoption of this definition, should dare to insist upon having his own way, to the perversion of the laity, and to the disturbance of the church, and upon celebrating Pascha along with the Jews, the holy Synod has hence judged that person to be an alien to the Church, on the ground that he has not only become guilty of sin by himself, but has also been the cause of corruption and perversion among the multitude. Accordingly, it not only deposes such persons from the liturgy, but also those who dare to commune with them after their deposition. Moreover, those who have been deposed are to be deprived of the external honor too of which the holy Canon and God's priesthood have partaken.
The Council of Antioch 341, recieved by the Council of Chalcedon

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Justin Martyr

#14
October 04, 2022, 02:44:28 PM Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 02:47:59 PM by Justin Martyr
Quote from: Kaesekopf on October 04, 2022, 01:24:48 PM
I'm always astounded by people who find the Eastern Rites relevant outside remarkably tiny ethnic enclaves.  :lol:

...as opposed to the remarkably tiny enclave that is Traditionalists? Those in glass houses...

at least the eastern rites arn't Azymites who completely broke with Apostolic Tradition to adopt an innovation with a well known heretical meaning, only to turn around and condemn the NO for doing the same thing less egregiously...
The least departure from Tradition leads to a scorning of every dogma of the Faith.
St. Photios the Great, Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs

CANON I: As for all persons who dare to violate the definition of the holy and great Synod convened in Nicaea in the presence of Eusebeia, the consort of the most God-beloved Emperor Constantine, concerning the holy festival of the soterial Pascha, we decree that they be excluded from Communion and be outcasts from the Church if they persist more captiously in objecting to the decisions that have been made as most fitting in regard thereto; and let these things be said with reference to laymen. But if any of the person occupying prominent positions in the Church, such as a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, after the adoption of this definition, should dare to insist upon having his own way, to the perversion of the laity, and to the disturbance of the church, and upon celebrating Pascha along with the Jews, the holy Synod has hence judged that person to be an alien to the Church, on the ground that he has not only become guilty of sin by himself, but has also been the cause of corruption and perversion among the multitude. Accordingly, it not only deposes such persons from the liturgy, but also those who dare to commune with them after their deposition. Moreover, those who have been deposed are to be deprived of the external honor too of which the holy Canon and God's priesthood have partaken.
The Council of Antioch 341, recieved by the Council of Chalcedon

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.
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