Salza doubles down

Started by TrendyWeb1, February 08, 2023, 12:55:46 PM

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TrendyWeb1

http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/did-abp-lefebvre-say-new-mass-kennedy.html
John Salza refuses to retract his statement that Archbishop Lefebvre said the New Mass for two years in response to Kennedy Hall's response to this claim.
https://gloria.tv/post/8qFCFMSc4fQyDqRDZF11ZrAtt

The Neo-Catholic grift seems to be ramping up in preparation for Francis' upcoming restrictions on the TLM.
"If anyone in word and mind does not properly and truly confess according to the holy Fathers all even to the last portion that which has been handed down and preached in the holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church of God...let him be anathema." -- Pope Martin I, The Lateran Council (649)

Stubborn

It's total bs. 
If +ABL would have done that in June 30, 1980, it would have been huge, even colossal news and every trad would have heard about it within a few weeks at most and the NO crooks would have had it plastered all over every newspaper and magazine all over the world. As it is, it's now some 43 years later and someone is talking total bs.
   
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent

Lynne

https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/archbishop-lefebvre-never-celebrated-new-mass-79736

QuoteThe Society's Liturgical Disposition
As recounted in Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais's authoritative Marcel Lefebvre: The Biography (Angelus Press 2004), "Since Archbishop Lefebvre was opposed to the New Mass, he would not have it in the seminary" (p. 416). When the first crop of seminarians who would form the foundation of the Society arrived in Fribourg, Switzerland in 1969, it was decided quickly that the Old Mass, that is the traditional Latin Mass (TLM), would be celebrated by the nascent priestly fraternity rather than the New Mass of Pope Paul VI. After the New Mass was introduced into the Diocese of Fribourg on the eve of Advent 1969, the Archbishop continued to celebrate the TLM, though some of the seminarians assisted at the New Mass in Latin at a nearby Bernardine monastery on Sundays when the Archbishop was called away on other matters.

The Archbishop's decision to allow his seminarians to assist at the Novus Ordo Missae was nothing more than an expression of his prudence. Not wanting to cause scandal to the faithful by appearing to disobey the local bishop, Archbishop Lefebvre took a cautious approach at first, informing an inquiring priest that the Roman Canon should be retained while the words of consecration are said in a low voice. As time went on, the Archbishop's concerns over the New Mass grew as he observed its disastrous fruits, consulted with episcopal colleagues, and reflected more on its doctrinal distortions.

one more quote

QuoteFalse Accusations
At no point did the Archbishop himself ever say the New Mass. It appears that the calumny saying that he did has its origins in an unsubstantiated letter written by Fr. Guérard des Lauriers, OP, on April 12, 1979. Fr. des Lauriers was a French theologian and professor who had formerly taught at the SSPX's seminary in Écône, Switzerland until his embrace of sedevacantism in 1977. Not only did the Archbishop deny this charge, but it was refuted in detail by Jean Madiran in the May 1980 issue of the journal he founded, Itinéraires. Madiran called Lauriers out for his outrageous language against the Archbishop, namely, accusing him of being a traitor and another Pontius Pilate. However, he noted the claim that the Archbishop celebrated the New Mass from April, 1969, to December, 1971, as being the worst accusation of all. Madiran pointed out to Fr. Lauriers that the New Mass was not even permitted before November 1969, and that it was absurd to think that the Archbishop was such an enthusiast for the New Mass that he would have started celebrating it before everyone else.

In the end, when the Archbishop wrote to Fr. Lauriers to deny the charge, the latter wrote back to say that he was happy this was the case, but that the Archbishop had made certain gestures while celebrating the traditional Mass that made him think he was celebrating the New Mass. It was clear at this point that Fr. Lauriers's original letter was a case of bad polemics.

In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael's Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    "My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you're supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen"

TrendyWeb1

Quote from: Lynne on February 08, 2023, 04:55:20 PMIn the end, when the Archbishop wrote to Fr. Lauriers to deny the charge, the latter wrote back to say that he was happy this was the case, but that the Archbishop had made certain gestures while celebrating the traditional Mass that made him think he was celebrating the New Mass.

The said gestures were likely that the Archbishop celebrated Versus Populum as it appears in this slideshow on slide 61:
https://www.slideshare.net/FatherKevinRobinson/archbishop-lefebvre-1963-1969
"If anyone in word and mind does not properly and truly confess according to the holy Fathers all even to the last portion that which has been handed down and preached in the holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church of God...let him be anathema." -- Pope Martin I, The Lateran Council (649)

Jmartyr

It would be kind of disappointing if he did. But, he ended up rejecting it in the end and that's all that really matters.
FRANCIS APPROVES THE SSPX. How dumb to quibble over nonsense.
"If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators." - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
" A false church cannot have a true mission." - St. Francis De Sales
" The way is open for us to deprive councils of their authority, contradict their acts freely, and profess confidently, whatever SEEMS to be true. " - Martin Luther

andy

Quote from: TrendyWeb1 on February 08, 2023, 05:25:30 PM
Quote from: Lynne on February 08, 2023, 04:55:20 PMIn the end, when the Archbishop wrote to Fr. Lauriers to deny the charge, the latter wrote back to say that he was happy this was the case, but that the Archbishop had made certain gestures while celebrating the traditional Mass that made him think he was celebrating the New Mass.

The said gestures were likely that the Archbishop celebrated Versus Populum as it appears in this slideshow on slide 61:
https://www.slideshare.net/FatherKevinRobinson/archbishop-lefebvre-1963-1969

I believe that +ABL briefly celebrated that halfway rite in mid 60s but never NO.

Instaurare omnia

Quote from: TrendyWeb1 on February 08, 2023, 05:25:30 PMhttps://www.slideshare.net/FatherKevinRobinson/archbishop-lefebvre-1963-1969

Versus populum didn't start with the NOM. Guardini, an influential figure among European liturgists, had already celebrated the traditional Mass that way for decades. 

As for slide 61, from that angle it looks like a very small chapel, perhaps not even a public Mass. One slide doesn't prove anything. Salza & Co. are on a nefarious mission, and they'll run with whatever lies or calumny serve their goals.
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem, frustra vigilat qui custodit eam (Psalm 126:2).
Benedicite, montes et colles, Domino: benedicite universa germinantia in terra, Domino (Daniel 3:75-76).
Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation (Psalm 145:2-3).

james03

QuoteE: Speak in the name of Jesus!
J: Ecône is on the unique good road.
E: Is that the truth? Is it Heaven who said that? Speak, in the name of Jesus!
J: When I say: the good road I do not wish to say that there is nobody else on the good road; but the
road which Ecône follows is singularly good. That is what we mean. There are not many roads which
are good, but there are many people who are on the good road. Ecône is on the good road and many
people do not recognize Ecône are searching for the truth, and so they also are on the good road.
E: Continue, in the name..., say what you must say!
J: Archbishop Mgr. Lefebvre will still have a great deal to suffer, but he is good.
E: Continue, in the name... say what you must say.
E: Is the liturgy he follows good? Tell the truth, in the name of Jesus!
J: The liturgy he follows is the only good one.
E: Is this the truth, in the name of Jesus?
J: It is the complete truth.
E: In the name of the Most Holy Trinity, have you lied?
J: No! It is the complete truth.

Future Saint Lefebvre almost stood alone, with only the Bishop in Brazil for support, and Thuc kind of doing his thing.  He had to figure things out.  He wasn't a profit, just a good man who had integrity.  He figured it out and preserved Tradition.  Whether he said some Novus Ordo variant at one time I simply don't care.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Prayerful

Quote from: TrendyWeb1 on February 08, 2023, 12:55:46 PMhttp://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/did-abp-lefebvre-say-new-mass-kennedy.html
John Salza refuses to retract his statement that Archbishop Lefebvre said the New Mass for two years in response to Kennedy Hall's response to this claim.
https://gloria.tv/post/8qFCFMSc4fQyDqRDZF11ZrAtt

The Neo-Catholic grift seems to be ramping up in preparation for Francis' upcoming restrictions on the TLM.

Archbishop Lefebvre offered or had offered the 'transitional' version of the Mass (64 or 66) for c. 2 to 3 years in the seminary as a holding position or mark of loyalty, while other priests used different versions, but Salza knows that. Versus populum was de rigeur among liturgical types from the 1930s. Salza knows that too, but not bringing out a new version of TOFP (an apologia for conservative V2 which was never appropriate) has made him venomous with anger.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.