Anointing? Prior to surgery

Started by Spera In Deo, February 09, 2023, 07:38:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Spera In Deo

OK, in the NO they have the anointing of the sick.

But what do you do as a trad when you are preparing for surgery?  Breast cancer surgery does not have a high risk, but as a nurse I know that the most unexpected things could go wrong.

Do I ask my priest for Last Rites the day of or is there another practice that I am unaware of?  TIA.
"What Catholics once were, we are. If we are wrong, then Catholics through the ages have been wrong.
We are what you once were. We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped. If we are wrong now, you were wrong then. If you were right then, we are right now".

Robert DePiante

drummerboy

Make a good confession.  That's what I did before my surgery, and there are many ways to gain a plenary indulgence, it never hurts to cover everything.  You typically can't eat before surgery so Communion is out of the question, but attending Mass is always an option (if the surgery isn't very early morning).

Prayers it goes well.
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

Lynne

In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael's Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    "My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you're supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen"

Stubborn

I had Extreme Unction before my heart surgery, I would have it again before any major surgery - particularly and especially these days. For me and others I've spoken with who've had it, that sacrament was life changing. I hope you receive it before your surgery.
Extreme Unction (The Anointing of the Dying), Great indeed are it's effects 
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent

benedicite

Before any major surgery you should request the Anointing of the Sick.

Miriam_M

Quote from: benedicite on February 12, 2023, 12:41:06 AMBefore any major surgery you should request the Anointing of the Sick.

Respectfully, we should request Extreme Unction.
This is not just a technical (name) difference, to be clear.  The prayers/rituals surrounding the (N.O.) Anointing of the Sick are different from Extreme Unction, although the latter is recommended for much more than Last Rites.  (As an aside, I grew up misunderstanding that E. U. was confined to situations of certain death. I'm sure that I was not alone in that wrong assumption.)

I mention this because after the Council, when the Anointing of the Sick was inaugurated at some point, it was "positioned" as a contrast to the supposed "last rites" of E.U., but of course that was a false opposition.

The traditional rite of E.U. contains exorcism prayers missing in the Anointing ritual.

Like more than one poster here, I know of recent situations wherein the person receiving E.U. before a major medical procedure and/or with a diagnosis of a very serious/dangerous illness experienced a prolonged reversal of medical decline. Also, those people were invited to partake of E.U. as often as needed -- such as if there were serious relapses or additional susrgeries scheduled.

I mentioned this additional aspect because that was the other false opposition set up in the N.O.  -- that supposedly E.U. could be administered "only once," whereas Anointing of the Sick was available whenever, and often.  (So is E.U.)

Spera In Deo

Quote from: Miriam_M on February 12, 2023, 02:35:52 AM
Quote from: benedicite on February 12, 2023, 12:41:06 AMBefore any major surgery you should request the Anointing of the Sick.

Respectfully, we should request Extreme Unction.
This is not just a technical (name) difference, to be clear.  The prayers/rituals surrounding the (N.O.) Anointing of the Sick are different from Extreme Unction, although the latter is recommended for much more than Last Rites.  (As an aside, I grew up misunderstanding that E. U. was confined to situations of certain death. I'm sure that I was not alone in that wrong assumption.)

I mention this because after the Council, when the Anointing of the Sick was inaugurated at some point, it was "positioned" as a contrast to the supposed "last rites" of E.U., but of course that was a false opposition.

The traditional rite of E.U. contains exorcism prayers missing in the Anointing ritual.

Like more than one poster here, I know of recent situations wherein the person receiving E.U. before a major medical procedure and/or with a diagnosis of a very serious/dangerous illness experienced a prolonged reversal of medical decline. Also, those people were invited to partake of E.U. as often as needed -- such as if there were serious relapses or additional susrgeries scheduled.

I mentioned this additional aspect because that was the other false opposition set up in the N.O.  -- that supposedly E.U. could be administered "only once," whereas Anointing of the Sick was available whenever, and often.  (So is E.U.)

Thank you for bringing this up. I had a lady at my SSPX chapel try to tell me I didn't need E.U. and that when she had breast cancer surgery Father only gave her a blessing.

I think I will listen to my priest over her opinion.  He is giving me E.U.

I was also under the assumption that E.U. was only for imminent death.

The links that some posters put to catechize on Extreme Unction were very useful.

What a beautiful gift from our loving God to us.  I know I will go into surgery and not be afraid of the anesthesia, knowing I received E.U the day before. I don't want to die, but if something unexpected happens, I will be prepared to meet my Lord. The Apostolic blessing is a wonderful thing!

Reading the prayers fromthe booklet for Last Rites by Angelus Press, I was greatly moved by the love and mercy Jesus has given us through His Church. 

I can not imagine living and dying anything but a Traditional Catholic.  I am not sure how, out of all the people in my family, I was given this gift of faith and to find tradition.  It blows my mind.  Deo Gratias!
"What Catholics once were, we are. If we are wrong, then Catholics through the ages have been wrong.
We are what you once were. We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped. If we are wrong now, you were wrong then. If you were right then, we are right now".

Robert DePiante

Lynne

Quote from: Spera In Deo on February 13, 2023, 06:17:56 PMI can not imagine living and dying anything but a Traditional Catholic.  I am not sure how, out of all the people in my family, I was given this gift of faith and to find tradition.  It blows my mind.  Deo Gratias!


Amen. (me too!)
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael's Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    "My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you're supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen"

Bonaventure

Talk to a good priest you trust. My mom had extreme unction, confession, and communion prior to an open heart surgery to repair a valve.

She wasn't in danger of death, but the priest (one of the Nine, sede, so you can bet hardcore) advised me we should do the rite.
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

drummerboy

Reading through the Catechism of the Council of Trent it seems the main requirement be that the recipient is not in good health. Hence those in imminent danger of death but in good health, such as soldiers or condemned criminals, cannot receive it.  As James wrote in his Epistle, "are any among you sick" let him be anointed.
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

Spera In Deo

Quote from: drummerboy on February 16, 2023, 12:10:58 PMReading through the Catechism of the Council of Trent it seems the main requirement be that the recipient is not in good health. Hence those in imminent danger of death but in good health, such as soldiers or condemned criminals, cannot receive it.  As James wrote in his Epistle, "are any among you sick" let him be anointed.

And I would say Cancer is not good health and while the danger of dying under anesthesia isn't high, it is there.  A traditional priest that I know used to not give E.U. before surgery until a child having surgery died for no apparent reason.  He now gives it whnever someone goes under general anesthesia.
"What Catholics once were, we are. If we are wrong, then Catholics through the ages have been wrong.
We are what you once were. We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped. If we are wrong now, you were wrong then. If you were right then, we are right now".

Robert DePiante

drummerboy

Precisely. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

Stubborn

Quote from: Spera In Deo on February 16, 2023, 05:36:10 PM
Quote from: drummerboy on February 16, 2023, 12:10:58 PMReading through the Catechism of the Council of Trent it seems the main requirement be that the recipient is not in good health. Hence those in imminent danger of death but in good health, such as soldiers or condemned criminals, cannot receive it.  As James wrote in his Epistle, "are any among you sick" let him be anointed.

And I would say Cancer is not good health and while the danger of dying under anesthesia isn't high, it is there.  A traditional priest that I know used to not give E.U. before surgery until a child having surgery died for no apparent reason.  He now gives it whnever someone goes under general anesthesia.
I think this is the way it should be myself. I have never seen any Church teaching or catechism saying  it's a sin to receive EU even if received unnecessarily on purpose. It probably is but I've never seen it.

At any rate, EU does not absolve from mortal sin, which is why when there is any danger we should receive the "Last Rites" which is Confession, Communion and Extreme Unction.   
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent

benedicite

Quote from: Miriam_M on February 12, 2023, 02:35:52 AM
Quote from: benedicite on February 12, 2023, 12:41:06 AMBefore any major surgery you should request the Anointing of the Sick.

Respectfully, we should request Extreme Unction.
This is not just a technical (name) difference, to be clear.  The prayers/rituals surrounding the (N.O.) Anointing of the Sick are different from Extreme Unction, although the latter is recommended for much more than Last Rites.  (As an aside, I grew up misunderstanding that E. U. was confined to situations of certain death. I'm sure that I was not alone in that wrong assumption.)

I mention this because after the Council, when the Anointing of the Sick was inaugurated at some point, it was "positioned" as a contrast to the supposed "last rites" of E.U., but of course that was a false opposition.

The traditional rite of E.U. contains exorcism prayers missing in the Anointing ritual.

Like more than one poster here, I know of recent situations wherein the person receiving E.U. before a major medical procedure and/or with a diagnosis of a very serious/dangerous illness experienced a prolonged reversal of medical decline. Also, those people were invited to partake of E.U. as often as needed -- such as if there were serious relapses or additional susrgeries scheduled.

I mentioned this additional aspect because that was the other false opposition set up in the N.O.  -- that supposedly E.U. could be administered "only once," whereas Anointing of the Sick was available whenever, and often.  (So is E.U.)

Either way, the OP should request the sacrament.

Spera In Deo

I will receive the Sacrament tomorrow and surgery is Monday.
"What Catholics once were, we are. If we are wrong, then Catholics through the ages have been wrong.
We are what you once were. We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped. If we are wrong now, you were wrong then. If you were right then, we are right now".

Robert DePiante