Chastisements

Started by ·, January 15, 2023, 12:15:59 AM

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My son, reject not the correction of the Lord: and do not faint when thou art chastised by him: For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth: and as a father in the son he pleaseth himself. (Proverbs 3:11-12)

The chastisements from God that correct us are good: the lesser good things in this world get in the way of the highest good in God, and it is good to be shown that the vanities of the world are indeed vain.

However, there is a mistake that is common these days where the instrument of a chastisement in seen as good in itself, even when that instrument is an evil-doer. It is blasphemy to deny God's goodness and to attribute any evil to Him. (ST II-II Q 13 A 1) The hardened hearts of sinners are not endorsements of their sins, but a punishment of evil. To be perfectly clear, claiming God is the cause of sin is false, blasphemous, and a severe error that must be repented. (ST I-II Q 79 A 1)

God is not the cause of unjust wars, murder, and other evils. It is common for evil-doers to think that their profession of Faith is what justifies them in their evil and think God supports them, but it is false, and it is not uncommon, as it is written:

But to the sinner God hath said: Why dost thou declare my justices, and take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hast hated discipline: and hast cast my words behind thee. If thou didst see a thief thou didst run with him: and with adulterers thou hast been a partaker. Thy mouth hath abounded with evil, and thy tongue framed deceits. Sitting thou didst speak against thy brother, and didst lay a scandal against thy mother's son: These things hast thou done, and I was silent. Thou thoughtest unjustly that I should be like to thee: but I will reprove thee, and set before thy face. (Psalm 49:16-21)

TheSaintsAreComing

Why are you even doing these pools? You've already made up your mind and clearly are not interested in having any discussions
I'm gone

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#2
I am interested in having discussions, but there does not seem to be many around who want to discuss. It takes a little more effort and knowledge to discuss these topics, and I would be happy for another to post more and better information on the same topic. That would be an edifying discussion! I have had them before on this forum. But that was the past.

If people have nothing to say, they shouldn't say anything: if one has no input on a topic, why post to that effect? Not everybody has to post all the time: people can and do read on forums.

Study wisdom, my son, and make my heart joyful, that thou mayst give an answer to him that reproacheth. (Proverbs 27:11)

TheSaintsAreComing

Don't you see how silly that is? That it's everyone else that's at fault, and nothing in your behavior

It has been said that the definition of insanity is expecting different results even when you continue acting in the same way

Whatever, carry on
I'm gone

Miriam_M

Quote from: Docebo·Iniquos on January 15, 2023, 06:02:10 AMI am interested in having discussions, but there does not seem to be anybody will or able to discuss these matters. It takes a little more effort and knowledge to discuss these topics, and I would be happy for another to post more and better information on the same topic. That would be an edifying discussion! I have had them before on this forum. But that was the past.

Why would a traditional Catholic want to have a "discussion" about whether God causes evil? It's the question posed in your "poll"  --  the answer to which is obvious.

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A Catholic here would want to discuss this topic because the 'obvious answer' to the question is not universally accepted on this forum.

Theological discussions with citations and careful editing are more difficult to have active discussions on compared to the endless commentary threads. Reducing them to meta-commentary or commentary on the writer is disrespectful to the topic itself. If one has nothing to say, nothing should be said.

The use of evil-doers as instruments of chastisement does not mean that the evil-doers are not evil or that God is the cause of their evil or that anyone should morally support the evil-doers. God is not the cause of evil. (ST I Q 49 A 2) This is simple and nothing more may need to be said. But for those who encountered the contrary claims, perhaps this is useful to have emphasized properly so there is clarity to counter the confused and muddled low-effort commentary on other threads.

Miriam_M

Once again, the shifting identities/usernames.

clau clau

#7
Has anybody else been getting UNSOLICITED personal messages from this user (Stude·Sapientiæ); informing one that one's responses are not Catholic?

Useful tip: Remember to add his new username to your ignore list to prevent this now that the username has changed.
Father time has an undefeated record.

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
(https://completeandunabridged.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-claudius.html)

Greg

Why is Joseph allowed to change his user name?  That should attract a ban.  It is bloody confusing and make his posts difficult to ignore.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Miriam_M

Quote from: Greg on January 20, 2023, 01:45:21 AMWhy is Joseph allowed to change his user name?  That should attract a ban.  It is bloody confusing and make his posts difficult to ignore.


I have been asking this informally for quite some time.  The changing usernames are an abuse and a form of manipulation and deception.  There should be a formal request about this under "Forum Improvements."  Either everyone is allowed to randomly change our usernames, or no one is.  Why is an exception made for one individual?  How are shifting identities a Catholic behavior (speaking of a so-called Catholic focus on the part of the complainer).

Those who are sincere (the vast majority of the forum) see no point in hiding our identity or creating false personas because we actually do want to have productive conversations with others, from a consistent identity, so in point of fact, allowing all to do so does not benefit honest users.

Greg

I posted a request on Forum improvements.  If you agree then like the suggestion.

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=21059.375
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Acolyte

#11
Quote from: Miriam_M on January 20, 2023, 12:50:01 AMOnce again, the shifting identities/usernames.

Miriam, it's a feature enabled on our account settings page. I just did it for this post here to show you how easy it is. I'm changing it back as soon as I post.

There's nothing in the forum rules to say that we can't use it. And as long as it is enabled some people will use it.

I don't care one way or another if it remains enabled.

Edit : well, I posted the above as Acolyte # 2 but after I changed my display name back to Acolyte it also changed my name back to Acolyte for my OP here. Oh well, it does show one can't change their display name for certain nefarious reasons without getting caught.
"From the moment we awake in the morning, let us pray continually in the words of holy David: Turn away my eyes, that they may not behold vanity"
St Alphonsus

"I will set my face against you, and you shall fall down before your enemies, and shall be made subject to them that hate you, you shall flee when no man pursueth you"
Leviticus 26:17

"Behold, O God our protector : and look upon the face of Thy Christ" (Ps. 79:20) Here is devotion to the face of Jesus Christ as prophesized by David."
Fr. Lawrence Daniel Carney III

Acolyte

#12
.
"From the moment we awake in the morning, let us pray continually in the words of holy David: Turn away my eyes, that they may not behold vanity"
St Alphonsus

"I will set my face against you, and you shall fall down before your enemies, and shall be made subject to them that hate you, you shall flee when no man pursueth you"
Leviticus 26:17

"Behold, O God our protector : and look upon the face of Thy Christ" (Ps. 79:20) Here is devotion to the face of Jesus Christ as prophesized by David."
Fr. Lawrence Daniel Carney III

Miriam_M

Quote from: Acolyte on January 20, 2023, 04:12:21 AMMiriam, it's a feature enabled on our account settings page.

I don't see the purpose of such a setting.  Forum Rule #2:
"2) We permit users to have only one account."

It doesn't say "only one account at a time" or one account per week.  As many others have also noted, it disrupts discussion as an ongoing activity, eludes accountability, and manipulates the other forum members.  It's also an enormous and uncharitable time-waster for the other members. Yes, as clau clau has wearily observed, we can make lists of Joseph's 10 or so (to date) usernames, but he's banking on people being less crafty and less interested in game-playing than he is. Most of us lack the time and interest to use a Catholic discussion forum as a means of subterfuge and defeat.

QuoteI don't care one way or another if it remains enabled.

I do care, if it remains an opportunity to derail discussions and ignore an identity-shifting member for

Quotecertain nefarious reasons.

An important Catholic virtue -- honesty's cousin -- is simplicity. Without it, sincerity vanishes quickly.

Acolyte

Quote from: Miriam_M on January 20, 2023, 09:20:21 AM
Quote from: Acolyte on January 20, 2023, 04:12:21 AMMiriam, it's a feature enabled on our account settings page.

I don't see the purpose of such a setting.  Forum Rule #2:
"2) We permit users to have only one account."

It doesn't say "only one account at a time" or one account per week.  As many others have also noted, it disrupts discussion as an ongoing activity, eludes accountability, and manipulates the other forum members.  It's also an enormous and uncharitable time-waster for the other members. Yes, as clau clau has wearily observed, we can make lists of Joseph's 10 or so (to date) usernames, but he's banking on people being less crafty and less interested in game-playing than he is. Most of us lack the time and interest to use a Catholic discussion forum as a means of subterfuge and defeat.

QuoteI don't care one way or another if it remains enabled.

I do care, if it remains an opportunity to derail discussions and ignore an identity-shifting member for

Quotecertain nefarious reasons.

An important Catholic virtue -- honesty's cousin -- is simplicity. Without it, sincerity vanishes quickly.


I understand, but all the reasons in the world we can give for not liking the feature/option, it still doesn't mean that if someone uses the feature it is a rule violation.
 
There is no rule that says if someone uses enabled features on their account settings that they are breaking rules.

"From the moment we awake in the morning, let us pray continually in the words of holy David: Turn away my eyes, that they may not behold vanity"
St Alphonsus

"I will set my face against you, and you shall fall down before your enemies, and shall be made subject to them that hate you, you shall flee when no man pursueth you"
Leviticus 26:17

"Behold, O God our protector : and look upon the face of Thy Christ" (Ps. 79:20) Here is devotion to the face of Jesus Christ as prophesized by David."
Fr. Lawrence Daniel Carney III