Salza, the SSPX is in schism

Started by Greg, December 03, 2022, 04:35:12 AM

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Greg

More crap from John Salza.



Make sure to downvote.  It shows up to the video poster.

Pro SSPX Comments are being deleted so keep them subtle.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Elizabeth

Two hours, that's a lot of work.  Good luck, lodge-boy.

Michael Wilson

Both Salza and Siscoe have turned against the SSPX after writing their book against Sedism: "True or False Pope".
The book was endorsed by several SSPX figures, such as Msgr Fellay; but their research into the authority of the Magisterium and that of the Pope, has led them to the necessary conclusion (from their acceptance of the legitimacy of the Conciliar authorities), that the SSPX is effectively in schism.
The authority of the Magisterium and of the Pope, as well as the duty of the faithful to be subject and obedient to said authority, is the principal issue which ultimately determines whether a Catholic can or cannot accept the errors and heresies emanating from Rome since the Council.
If the Conciliar Popes are true Popes, then the Council cannot contain any errors that are contrary to faith or morals; the doctrines of Religious Liberty and Ecumenism are in accord with the previous Church teachings.
The Church cannot also promulgate discipline that is harmful to souls, or even useless and burdensome; therefore the fake annulment fiasco of the post Conciliar era is not what it seems it is i.e. The wholesale permission of adultery and serial polygamy.
But if these doctrines are contrary to Catholic belief and these disciplinary changes are indeed harmful for souls, then there is a major problem with the authorities that promulgated these innovations; a problem that any Catholic who wants to remain Catholic and save their souls, is sooner or latter confronted with.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

AlNg

Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 03, 2022, 09:28:22 AM
Both Salza and Siscoe have turned against the SSPX
Mr. Salza was attending Mass with SSPX for 15 years. Now he has flip flopped and is against SSPX. He brings up so many different issues here in this video. For example, he says that SSPX is in schism and is not part of the Catholic Church. If that is so, then according to a poster here, attendance at a non-Catholic religious service is forbidden by divine law and is a mortal sin.  So SV would be forbidden to attend SSPX, if all of this were true. But if SSPX is not part of the Catholic Church how come their bishops are not excommunicated and they are una cum Pope Francis.
One side note: If I understand Mr. Salza correctly, he says that only the Pope has the right and the authority to choose who will be ordained as a bishop. I doubt that in the event of a reunion between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic, that the E.O. would accept this.

Michael Wilson

AINg.
I don't follow you at all:
Your premise: The SSPX is not in union with the Conciliar Church; therefore it is in schism with the Conciliar Church. Next (non-sequitur) Attendance at a non-Catholic religious service is forbidden by divine law and a mortal sin, so the S.V. would be forbidden to attend SSPX???

You are one confused young man.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

AlNg

Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 03, 2022, 02:39:14 PM

You are one confused young man.
Very true. I was jumping from the recent Salza POV to the SV POV, which are different.

First of all. With reference to Mr. Salza. He now says he changed his mind and it is wrong to attend SSPX. But for 15 full years, he did attend the SSPX, so he was wrong then. If he was wrong then, for 15 full years, how can we be sure, after he changed his mind,  whether or not he is right now. Anyway, let's look at the current Salza POV:
The current Salza POV: The Church of Pope Francis is the Catholic Church and SSPX is in schism from the Catholic Church. Pope Francis is the Pope of the Catholic Church.  Further, by being in schism from the Catholic Church, the SSPX is not in the Catholic Church, but is outside of the Catholic Church.
So, from the POV of Mr. Salza it is a mortal sin (material wise)  to attend the SSPX, even though the rite of the SSPX Mass is a Catholic rite. He cites  various reasons why it is wrong to attend an SSPX Mass, such as SSPX is not part of the Catholic Church. He does say that the Church does allow attendance at non-Catholic service under a few limited conditions, but not generally.  However, he excuses himself for attending for 15 years because he did not know that SSPX was not part of the Catholic Church.
In any case, it is now generally a mortal sin to attend the SSPX (materially) from the Salza POV today, with a few limited exceptions.
Secondly, let us look at the SV POV, at least as I understand it to be from SV posts that i have read here:
The current organization of Pope Francis AKA the Conciliar Church is not the Catholic Church. Pope Francis is not the Pope of the Catholic Church, but he is an imposter. Further, for 60 years or so, there have been no Popes of the Catholic Church. And the organization headed by Pope Francis is a counterfeit Church. Now there is at least one SV poster who claims that it is a mortal sin if you attend a religious service celebrated under the auspices of a non-Catholic Church. But at the same time, it is claimed that it is OK from the SV POV to attend a SSPX Mass. I can't make sense of that. The SSPX emphatically claims that it is una cum Pope Francis. And it has welcomed the fact that the excommunications of its bishops have been lifted. If the SSPX is emphatically una cum Pope Francis and it emphatically recognizes him as Pope of the Catholic Church, then according to the SV POV the SSPX Masses are celebrated under the auspices of an imposter Pope who is the head of a counterfeit Church, which is not the Catholic Church. If the SV POV is correct when it claims that it is gravely wrong to attend a Mass under the auspices of a non-Catholic Church, then it is gravely wrong from the SV POV to attend an SSPX Mass which is held under the auspices of a non-Catholic sect, the counterfeit Catholic Church, i.e., the Conciliar Church which  is not the Catholic Church.





Michael Wilson

#6
1. Mr. Salza: Pope Francis is a legitimate Pope and is head of the Catholic Church.
2. Pope Francis and the Church he heads hold that it is legitimate to attend non-Catholic religious ceremonies.
3. Mr. Salza claims that it is not legitimate to attend SSPX ceremonies, because they are not Catholic.
4. So Mr Salza is way off.
Agreed?
Now from the Sed side: 
1. It is a mortal sin to actively participate in non-Catholic religious services (C.I.S.) and this against divine law, so it is still and will always be a mortal sin.
2. Is being "una cum" i.e. Inserting the Name of Francis in the canon of the Mass, make the SSPX "in-communion'' with the Conciliar Church? The Conciliar Church says that they are not in "full communion".
3.So that would get the Sedes who claim that they are in communion "off-the hook", for C.I.S. As far as I can see, for it is not the role of the SSPX to dictate "who is in communion" and "who is not", with the Conciliar Church, but the Conciliar Church's role.
4. Since the SSPX is not in "full-Communion'' with the Conciliar Church, then those attending their services are not attending a "Conciliar Church" service, and are therefore not committing C.I.S.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

AlNg

Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 03, 2022, 05:05:15 PM

3. Since the SSPX is not in "full-Communion'' with the Conciliar Church, then those attending their services are not attending a "Conciliar Church" service, and are therefore not committing C.I.S.
Thanks for your kind answer.
But that does not address the question:
Under whose auspices does the SSPX celebrate their religious services?
For Mr. Salza:
According to the video, Mr. Salza says that the situation of the E.O. is different from that of the SSPX. So no, I would not agree that "Mr. Salza claims that it is not legitimate to attend SSPX ceremonies, because they are not Catholic." There is more to his objection than that according to the video. I don't recall exactly, but in the video he claims something like the EO still have faculties of some sort, whereas SSPX does not.

Michael Wilson

If the E.O. Has faculties, then so does the SSPX; talk about "straining a gnat and swallowing a camel" for S&S. Further, if everyone is saved; which is a general teaching and belief in the Conciliar Church; if the Old Testament is still operative and God operates within modern Judaism; if you erect a statue of the devil on St. Peter's main altar in order to honor it; if you repeatedly host religious gatherings of all the world's sects (except those who don't want to play the: 'all religions lead to God' game). Then what does it matter about who goes to Church where? What does it matter who is in schism and who isn't; its all a farce.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

AlNg

Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 03, 2022, 05:37:46 PM
If the E.O. Has faculties, then so does the SSPX;

Not according to Mr. Salza as you can verify by the video posted on this thread.

james03

If Salza is attending a Trad Mass, I'd be curious to know if that Mass is being done in full accordance to all the stipulations Bergoglio put out.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Jmartyr

The highest authorities in the Church from the Pope and Cardinals say the SSPX is not in schism. So shouldn't Salza shut up and obey?
"If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators." - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
" A false church cannot have a true mission." - St. Francis De Sales
" The way is open for us to deprive councils of their authority, contradict their acts freely, and profess confidently, whatever SEEMS to be true. " - Martin Luther

Michael Wilson

Quote from: AlNg on December 03, 2022, 05:43:45 PM
Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 03, 2022, 05:37:46 PM
If the E.O. Has faculties, then so does the SSPX;

Not according to Mr. Salza as you can verify by the video posted on this thread.
Mr. Salza thinks that it is important to be "in full communion" with the Conciliar Church; why? I haven't a clue. According to the Conciliar Church all men are saved. Being in "full communion" or "partial Communion" doesn't make a bit of difference to the fact that one is saved. I will see if I have time and listen to the tape.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

Instaurare omnia

Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem, frustra vigilat qui custodit eam (Psalm 126:2).
Benedicite, montes et colles, Domino: benedicite universa germinantia in terra, Domino (Daniel 3:75-76).
Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation (Psalm 145:2-3).

Michael Wilson

Misters S&S. Admit that there is a crisis in the Church, but do not acknowledge that the crisis has its origin in Vatican II and the Conciliar Papal claimants. Therefore they build up a case against the SSPX and its extraordinary mission (and by extension the mission of all the groups operating independently of the Conciliar authorities); by applying the rules that would govern them if there were actually a Catholic Pope in Rome and things were operating normally there. Which is to beg the question: If the Conciliar Popes were true Popes, then Vatican II would have not promulgated the heresies that it did; the Conciliar Popes would not have applied the principles of the Council to destroy the faith and morals of the Catholic faithful, and the faithful, whether clerical, religious or laity would not have been forced to reject such errors in order to keep their Catholic faith and thereby to save their souls. The SSPX and all the independent groups are operating under the supreme law of the Church, which is the salvation of souls.
If Mr. Sisco and Salza really believed in the principles and doctrines of the Council, they would realize that all men are saved and it doesn't matter which religion one belongs to; which faith one practices, including devil worship, because all these are willed by God, and lead all men to Heaven. 
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers