Racism as a Sin?

[Heinrich]

https://www.unz.com/ldinh/genghis-khan-vs-thomas-jefferson/#comment-4021609

[TradGranny]

Hong Kong is NOT a city of China. That is what is in dispute.

Hong Kong can only be called "a city of China" if one supports the "right" of Communist China to renege on their agreement.

It was called "One country, two systems." Hong Kong was independent of Chinese Communist control.

TradGranny,

Here is the text from the Joint Declaration signed by Britain & China in 1984.

. . .  The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region will enjoy a high degree of autonomy, except in foreign and defence affairs which are the responsibilities of the Central People's Government."

The "high degree of autonomy" is also known as "Two systems, one nation." This is why the poor dear people of Hong Kong are outraged. Their promised AUTONOMY is being demolished by the satanic Communist Chinese, who are liars like their father satan, the enemy of mankind.

How is it that your purported love of the Chinese people does not extend to those Chinese people who love their God-given human rights?

[Tales]

TradGranny,

As I noted in the post to trentcath:

Anyone who has spent two iotas of time in mainland China as well as HK can tell you HK enjoys a tremendous degree of autonomy.

The JD and BL both state Hong Kong is to "enjoy a high degree of autonomy."  They do.

Ever set foot over here?  Or is your opinion merely formed by what political elites & the media tell you to think?

[trentcath]

Hong Kong is NOT a city of China. That is what is in dispute.

Hong Kong can only be called "a city of China" if one supports the "right" of Communist China to renege on their agreement.

It was called "One country, two systems." Hong Kong was independent of Chinese Communist control.

TradGranny,

Here is the text from the Joint Declaration signed by Britain & China in 1984.

"1. The Government of the People's Republic of China declares that to recover the Hong Kong area (including Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories, hereinafter referred to as Hong Kong) is the common aspiration of the entire Chinese people, and that it has decided to resume the exercise of sovereignty over Hong Kong with effect from 1 July 1997.

(2) The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region will be directly under the authority of the Central People's Government of the People's Republic of China. The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region will enjoy a high degree of autonomy, except in foreign and defence affairs which are the responsibilities of the Central People's Government."

So straight from the British & Chinese, both sides agreed 36 years ago that:

1) HKSAR is under the authority of the PRC
2) HKSAR is not independent but does have a high degree of autonomy
3) with the exception of defence and foreign relations, which are retained to the state government

So to argue that HK is not a city of China is over three decades behind the times.

I need not quote it again as it mirrors this language but the Basic Law of Hong Kong, again passed thirty years ago, is the city's "constitution" and says the same thing.

Joint Declaration:  https://www.cmab.gov.hk/en/issues/jd2.htm
Basic Law:  https://www.basiclaw.gov.hk/en/basiclawtext/images/basiclaw_full_text_en.pdf

And yet nothing there about domestic affairs? Anyone that thinks the security law comes under foreign and external affairs is drinking Kool aid. They also know nothing about law, international or otherwise 

[trentcath]

trentcath,

This is absolute rubbish.

One of my best friends is from HK and both him and his parents (his dad more than his mum) are desperate to leave. Indeed, the whole reason he is in the west is to get a passport so that his family can escape from HK as his Dad is convinced China will ruin the place.

My anecdotal analysis ballparks it at around 70% of the local Hong Kongers supported the riots and anarchy.  This, however, does not mean that the cause of their support is because China is oppressing them even if that is the reason they state.  Any long-time outsider here can easily see precisely what is going on, as Mr. Dodwell correctly does.  Outsiders have an easier time not falling for propaganda spread by local influencers and thus can sometimes see things far more clearly for what they are.

Hong Kongers are crushed, absolutely crushed to the ground by their property system.  Unlike everywhere else in the world, there is literally no place within Hong Kong to which people can escape and live in reasonably priced housing.  Excluding public housing which has an 8-year waiting list for young married couples, I live in the dead cheapest housing in Hong Kong.  You cannot find cheaper housing than the community I live in - I guarantee it.  Want to know what the dead cheapest housing in HK costs?  $1,350 USD per sqft to buy (I rent).  Regular middle class housing costs well over $2,000 USD per sqft and upper middle class is $3,000+ USD per sqft.

Meanwhile, as Mr. Dodwell notes, salaries in Hong Kong are flat since 1997.  The starting salary for a college graduate is about $1,400 USD per month and its remained unchanged for decades.  So the young people have no hope - Hong Kong cannot offer them a basic life.  They cannot buy a property, they cannot get into public housing, their jobs are awful 12-hour days 6 days a week, and there's nothing they can do about it.  Anywhere else in the world you can always move into the suburbs, or exurbs, or into a different state to find a place where one can afford a roof and find a job to pay for said house.  But literally that is not possible in Hong Kong, literally every single property is bankruptingly expensive (this is why they send their kids to university in Canada / Oz / NZ so as to obtain residency in cheaper lands [and push up property prices much to the rightful consternation of locals]).

So go ask a HKer why they're upset and they'll likely tell you because China is so evil.  Go ask BLM why they're angry and they'll tell you its because of racism.  Ask ANTIFA why they're upset and they'll tell you Trump is Hitler.  Ask a liberal why he's upset and he'll tell you its because Russiagate.  The insiders have their minds trapped within the horsecrap the elites tell them to believe.  The reality is obvious.  HKers are upset because they are slaves to the Property Cartel (run by four billionaire HK families).

Just because someone says XYZ is their reason, it does not mean XYZ is their true reason.  Usually it actually is not their reason, because people don't understand themselves nor their societies and instead just believe whatever their leaders, Faux News, CNN et al tell them.  People do have a true underlying sense of unhappiness but they almost always misdiagnose why they are unhappy.  Usually people are upset because their lives lack stability and hope (often due to economic circumstances).  Elites see people unhappy and then offer them faux reasons for their unhappiness - oh you are unhappy because everyone is racist, oh you are unhappy because of patriarchy, oh you are unhappy because China and Russia and Iran are screwing you.  The reality is simple though:  Americans are unhappy because they are drowning in debt and their economy is a sham.  HKers are unahppy because they literally cannot buy a roof anywhere in the city and their jobs suck.  It isn't Russians hiding behind bushes controlling your elections.  It isn't Iranians invading your cities.  It isn't Chinese creeping up behind you in the night.  Its local problems and the locals cannot fix their local problems, so the elites offer faux reasons for the problems and we call those scapegoats.

By the way, I note that for the 156 years Britain ruled Hong Kong, 150 of those years were under monarchical dictate by an alien king tens of thousands of miles away.  Only right before the handover did Britain so "magnanimously" decide that finally, after a century and a half, the Chinaman was good enough to be able to vote for his local government.  But even at that it was only for a tiny fraction of the LegCo (Congress) seats that the lowly HKer was allowed to vote.  Since "evil commie China" has taken over Hong Kong the city has had 100% of its time under "totalitarian" China governed by local democratic elections.  "Dictator" Beijing has even expanded the number of LegCo (Congress) seats that the local HKers can vote for and in 2014 even offered a path to directly voting for the Chief Executive (President) [but the local liberal party shot the plan down because it'd blow up their powerbase].

So is your friend really afraid of a takeover by China, or just merely finally throwing in the towel on a city most people find economically intolerable?

It is very true that the Basic law does require HK to implement a nationals security law, however the law nowhere states that the PRC can implement such a law if HK does not do so or provides any penalties for default. The National security law also provides for mainland police and intelligence agencies to have bases in HK and operate there unchecked by local police authorities and without being subject to HK law. This is a blatant breach of the Basic law and of the Sino-British agreement. Moreover, many trials under the law would take place without a jury, something which is again unprecedented.

Here is what the 1984 Joint Declaration states:
https://www.cmab.gov.hk/en/issues/jd2.htm 

"The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region will be directly under the authority of the Central People's Government of the People's Republic of China. The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region will enjoy a high degree of autonomy, except in foreign and defence affairs which are the responsibilities of the Central People's Government."

The Joint Declaration at the very beginning tells us that HK is directly under Chinese authority but with a high degree of autonomy.  Anyone who has spent two iotas of time in mainland China as well as HK can tell you HK enjoys a tremendous degree of autonomy.  The JD does not state that HK can do whatever it wants, that HK is independent, or anything of that sort.  It explicitly  begins by telling us that HK is directly under Chinese authority but with a high degree of autonomy.  They have precisely that.  It goes on to tell us that this high degree of autonomy does not extend to foreign and defence affairs, which we will see goes directly to the heart of Article 23 and the National Security Law.  This is what Britain itself wrote and signed.
I also note that China negotiating with Britain to take back Hong Kong is to literally negotiate with a drug warlord who stole your land.  That Britain has demands upon China to hand back over land they stole by war in order to operate a drug running business in Canton takes the type of bravado that only a Brit like Greg has.

As for Chinese courts, here is the text of the Basic Law (skip down to page 61 where it begins discussing HK):
https://www.basiclaw.gov.hk/en/basiclawtext/images/basiclaw_full_text_en.pdf

Article 19 states:

"The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall be vested withindependent judicial power, including that of final adjudication.The courts of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shallhave jurisdiction over all cases in the Region, except that the restrictionson their jurisdiction imposed by the legal system and principlespreviously in force in Hong Kong shall be maintained.  The courts of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shallhave no jurisdiction over acts of state such as defence and foreign affairs.The courts of the Region shall obtain a certificate from the ChiefExecutive on questions of fact concerning acts of state such as defenceand foreign affairs whenever such questions arise in the adjudication ofcases. This certificate shall be binding on the courts. Before issuing sucha certificate, the Chief Executive shall obtain a certifying document fromthe Central People's Government."

So the Basic Law states that the HK courts are fully independent with the exception of matters of state such as defence and foreign affairs.  Joshua Wong and fugitive from justice billionaire convict Jimmy Lai flying to America to meet with Mike Pence and testify before Congress to have America intervene in Hong Kong is precisely this type of matter of state.  It is a matter of treason and sedition under state defence and precisely what Article 23 and the new Security Law enacted under Article 23 are about.  I wonder how many HKers even bother reading the simple language of the Basic Law themselves vs merely reading the Apple Daily tabloids run by billionaire fugitive from justice convicted criminal Jimmy Lai and hear what he tells them to think.
---
I offer some food for thought, here is an article today from the SCMP comparing and contrasting the Macau and HK national security laws:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3092215/national-security-tale-two-cities-how-different-reasons-and

I think Macau and Hong Kong provide an A+ example of the difference between Catholic and Protestant societies.  Macau was Portuguese for 400 years and Hong Kong British for 150 years.  While the Portuguese were hardly Catholic by the time of the handover, there is still much Catholicity built into their society and how their relations as governors of Macau were handled for those four centuries.  Britain is of course Protestant.

So here you have two tiny colony cities located right next to each other.  I can literally see Macau from my window on a clear day.  Both cities Chinese.  Both cities were foreign colonies.  Both cities handed back to the same "evil commie Chinese."  Both cities located in same small region.  Both cities tiny with high population density. Yet totally different outcomes.  Macau melded peacefully back into China and is doing fine for itself.  Hong Kong has not.  Macau has even higher population density than Hong Kong yet it has bigger homes at lower prices, as well as rising wages.  Hong Kong has cage homes, they cost a couple million USD to buy, and their lowly salaries are flat since 1997.  Macau peacefully and voluntarily passed their own National Security Law as the Basic Law orders, but Hong Kong resisted, tried to burn their city down and invite foreign intervention, tested the 23-year patience of Beijing and now have it forced upon them.

One was Catholic.  One was Protestant.

I'll stick with the Catholic model for how to interact with foreign societies.

As for myself, I attend the TLM at a wonderful Tridentine community of faithful Catholics here.  My children and wife were all baptized here.  Thank you for your concern.

This is genuinely the biggest lot of rubbish I have read on here in a long time:

A) Although people say they are doing y for x reason, I know better, they are actually doing it for z reason. This is a textbook example of an unverifiable claim as we can't read peoples thoughts and there is no way of knowing whether they are actually doing it for hidden reasons. I am quite sure my friend and many others genuinely do care about freedom though, otherwise (like others) they would just shut up and get high paying jobs or move elsewhere.

B) As I've said above the idea that the national security law falls under foreign or defence affairs is nonsense, it is clearly an internal matter particularly because the law punishes sedition etc.. which are internal matters. Those terms are well known in international and comparative law and I doubt any serious scholar (not paid by the Chinese or in fear of his life) would agree that the national security law falls within its purview.

C) Comparing Macau (a gangster state living off casinos run by the triads) with Hong Kong which has a diversified economy and over 11 times the population of Macau is comparing apples and oranges. Not to mention China felt much more threatened by the UK than Portugal and this likely further affected relations. Also portugal has not been a Catholic State for decades if not centuries, it has been extremely secular and even anti-clerical.

Very curious to hear that you are attending a "TLM of faithful catholics" but unfortunately that doesn't answer the question, is it a state recognised or an underground church? Assuming you are living in the PRC and not HK or Macau it can only be either state recognised or underground. If the former its schismatic/borderline heretical and if the latter you seriously undermine your point about the PRC being such an amazing place...

[TradGranny]

The JD and BL both state Hong Kong is to "enjoy a high degree of autonomy."  They do.

Who or what are JD and BL? In any event, both are out of touch with reality. Check this out:

Freedom Fighters Flee As Hong Kong's New 'Security' Law Hands The City To The Communist Party
July 1, 2020 By Jonah Gottschalk

One year ago, millions took to the streets of Hong Kong to save the formerly autonomous city's liberties. Today, as the Communist Congress sets into law the means to punish dissidents as the party pleases, it's clear the fight was lost.

"It marks the end of Hong Kong that the world new before," pro-democracy leader and Nobel Peace Prize nominee Joshua Wong reportedly said at the news of the bill's unveiling.

The legislation has been kept secret for months and was today approved by the National People's Congress. The body is widely recognized as a puppet of the Communist Party, and the people of Hong Kong unsurprisingly had no say in the bill. The legislation implements harsh punishments, including lifetime imprisonment, for residents who violate the party's new rules for the city.

Included in these are a broad list of crimes that are defined to include regular protest activity. This includes "terrorism" for disrupting traffic, "subversion" for disrupting any government agents, and "secession" for groups speaking of potential independence. Any attempt for protest groups to work with the international community is now a criminal offense.

The bill entered into force midnight on Tuesday, the 23rd anniversary of the day Beijing gaining control of the once democratic city. It has now been forced into Hong Kong's basic law, which is the autonomous territory's closest equivalent to a constitution.
Fleeing for Their Lives

The bill has already had a catastrophic impact for the city's numerous pro-democracy groups. Independence groups, such as the Hong Kong National Front and Hong Kong Indigenous, abandoned the country upon the bill's passing. Demosisto, the city's largest pro-democracy party, also announced that it will disband. While some activists flee, others, including Wong, intend to stay and take the consequences as they will.

"If my voice will not be heard soon, I hope that the international community will continue to speak up for Hong Kong and step up concrete efforts to defend our last bit of freedom." The Nobel Peace prize nominee then proceeded to quote Psalms 23:3. "I may walk through the valley of the shadow of death, but I won't be afraid. You are with me, and your shepherd's rod makes me feel safe."

Even for those who have fled, the CCP's new rules mean it will continue to hunt them down. The bill states that its harsh sentences can be used on those outside the territory, although the government has not revealed how it will enforce this.

The CCP is known for violent retribution against groups resistant to its rule. The ongoing Uyghur genocide in China's north began with the ethnic minority group calling for greater independence. Outside the province, more than one million party officials have been incarcerated in Chinese President Xi Jinping's extra-judicial "campaign against corruption," a thinly veiled crackdown against dissidents in the Party.

In response to the Communist Party's actions, the Trump administration officially removed Hong Kong's preferential trade status. 'If Beijing now treats Hong Kong as "One Country, One System, then so must we," Secretary of State Mike Pompeo stated.

As of press time, there is no news yet as to what has happened to Wong and the pro-democracy leaders who chose not to flee.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/01/freedom-fighters-flee-as-hong-kongs-new-security-law-hands-the-city-to-the-communist-party/

[TradGranny]

Ever set foot over here?  Or is your opinion merely formed by what political elites & the media tell you to think?

As the left always does, you are projecting onto another your own problem -- here you are: a person whose opinion just happens to PARROT the Chinese Communist Party line, accusing another of having opinions based on propaganda.

[trentcath]

Who or what are JD and BL? In any event, both are out of touch with reality. Check this out:

Joint Declaration and Basic Law.

[TradGranny]

Joint Declaration and Basic Law.

Thanks.

[TradGranny]

Very curious to hear that you are attending a "TLM of faithful catholics" but unfortunately that doesn't answer the question, is it a state recognised or an underground church? Assuming you are living in the PRC and not HK or Macau it can only be either state recognised or underground. If the former its schismatic/borderline heretical and if the latter you seriously undermine your point about the PRC being such an amazing place...

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. As you point out, this apologist for Communist oppression of the Chinese is either:
1. a member of the oppressive psuedo-"Catholic church" run by the Communists or
2. a member of the persecuted underground Catholic Church.

The reason I refer to the Communist-approved fake Catholic church as oppressive is that if you read any books written by Catholics imprisoned in Communist China for their Catholic faith (like Joy in Suffering by Rose Yu) you learn that fake priests and fake nuns are sent in by their Communist masters to try to get those in Communist slave labor camps to recant their Catholic faith and join the so-called "Patriotic" (that is, Communist) fake Catholic Church.

[mikemac]

Very curious to hear that you are attending a "TLM of faithful catholics" but unfortunately that doesn't answer the question, is it a state recognised or an underground church? Assuming you are living in the PRC and not HK or Macau it can only be either state recognised or underground. If the former its schismatic/borderline heretical and if the latter you seriously undermine your point about the PRC being such an amazing place...

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. As you point out, this apologist for Communist oppression of the Chinese is either:
1. a member of the oppressive psuedo-"Catholic church" run by the Communists or
2. a member of the persecuted underground Catholic Church.

The reason I refer to the Communist-approved fake Catholic church as oppressive is that if you read any books written by Catholics imprisoned in Communist China for their Catholic faith (like Joy in Suffering by Rose Yu) you learn that fake priests and fake nuns are sent in by their Communist masters to try to get those in Communist slave labor camps to recant their Catholic faith and join the so-called "Patriotic" (that is, Communist) fake Catholic Church.

I believe Davis previously said that he attends the TLM at Mary Help of Christians Parish in Kowloon, Hong Kong.

https://www.latinmassdir.org/venue/mary-help-of-christians-parish-ma-tau-wai/

https://tridentine.catholic.org.hk/

I see Davis as posting facts, not pro CCP, but pro Chinese.  My problem with this situation is the extreme real estate prices in Canada, caused from laundered money by Hong Kong Chinese.  I hope the CCP does extradite the money launderers from Hong Kong.  If they do then young Canadians may eventually be able to afford a home in Canada.  Because as it stands right now a high majority of young Canadians have given up hope of ever being able to buy a home in Canada. 

[trentcath]

Very curious to hear that you are attending a "TLM of faithful catholics" but unfortunately that doesn't answer the question, is it a state recognised or an underground church? Assuming you are living in the PRC and not HK or Macau it can only be either state recognised or underground. If the former its schismatic/borderline heretical and if the latter you seriously undermine your point about the PRC being such an amazing place...

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. As you point out, this apologist for Communist oppression of the Chinese is either:
1. a member of the oppressive psuedo-"Catholic church" run by the Communists or
2. a member of the persecuted underground Catholic Church.

The reason I refer to the Communist-approved fake Catholic church as oppressive is that if you read any books written by Catholics imprisoned in Communist China for their Catholic faith (like Joy in Suffering by Rose Yu) you learn that fake priests and fake nuns are sent in by their Communist masters to try to get those in Communist slave labor camps to recant their Catholic faith and join the so-called "Patriotic" (that is, Communist) fake Catholic Church.

I believe Davis previously said that he attends the TLM at Mary Help of Christians Parish in Kowloon, Hong Kong.

https://www.latinmassdir.org/venue/mary-help-of-christians-parish-ma-tau-wai/

https://tridentine.catholic.org.hk/

I see Davis as posting facts, not pro CCP, but pro Chinese.  My problem with this situation is the extreme real estate prices in Canada, caused from laundered money by Hong Kong Chinese.  I hope the CCP does extradite the money launderers from Hong Kong.  If they do then young Canadians may eventually be able to afford a home in Canada.  Because as it stands right now a high majority of young Canadians have given up hope of ever being able to buy a home in Canada.

Thanks. So, whilst claiming the PRC is a paradise he actually lives off the few remaining freedoms HK has? 

FYI, actual Hong Kongers would not at all be surprised that an expat who can easily jet off to safety after raking in $$$ in HK doesn't give a toss about their freedoms.

Also re home prices, this will never happen lol. Rich Chinese will always invest their money abroad because whilst their wealth will never be safe in China (as the state can seize it at any moment) it is safe abroad, this applies even to those that are pro-CCP. The issue is not then money launders so much as Canada's immigration laws (as there will always be an endless supply of Rich Chinese with money to invest). That said, there are plenty of places in Canada with affordable housing, just not in major cities. I think that is pretty much the same anywhere in the West or, to an extent, in the world...

[trentcath]

Very curious to hear that you are attending a "TLM of faithful catholics" but unfortunately that doesn't answer the question, is it a state recognised or an underground church? Assuming you are living in the PRC and not HK or Macau it can only be either state recognised or underground. If the former its schismatic/borderline heretical and if the latter you seriously undermine your point about the PRC being such an amazing place...

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. As you point out, this apologist for Communist oppression of the Chinese is either:
1. a member of the oppressive psuedo-"Catholic church" run by the Communists or
2. a member of the persecuted underground Catholic Church.

The reason I refer to the Communist-approved fake Catholic church as oppressive is that if you read any books written by Catholics imprisoned in Communist China for their Catholic faith (like Joy in Suffering by Rose Yu) you learn that fake priests and fake nuns are sent in by their Communist masters to try to get those in Communist slave labor camps to recant their Catholic faith and join the so-called "Patriotic" (that is, Communist) fake Catholic Church.

Apparently the mask has now slipped, and despite repeatedly spouting pro-china apologetics, he actually lives in HK. Strange, considering as the PRC apparently has no major problems  I wonder if he has asked himself how much longer the Chinese State will allow religious freedom in HK? Not long is my guess 

[mikemac]

Very curious to hear that you are attending a "TLM of faithful catholics" but unfortunately that doesn't answer the question, is it a state recognised or an underground church? Assuming you are living in the PRC and not HK or Macau it can only be either state recognised or underground. If the former its schismatic/borderline heretical and if the latter you seriously undermine your point about the PRC being such an amazing place...

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. As you point out, this apologist for Communist oppression of the Chinese is either:
1. a member of the oppressive psuedo-"Catholic church" run by the Communists or
2. a member of the persecuted underground Catholic Church.

The reason I refer to the Communist-approved fake Catholic church as oppressive is that if you read any books written by Catholics imprisoned in Communist China for their Catholic faith (like Joy in Suffering by Rose Yu) you learn that fake priests and fake nuns are sent in by their Communist masters to try to get those in Communist slave labor camps to recant their Catholic faith and join the so-called "Patriotic" (that is, Communist) fake Catholic Church.

I believe Davis previously said that he attends the TLM at Mary Help of Christians Parish in Kowloon, Hong Kong.

https://www.latinmassdir.org/venue/mary-help-of-christians-parish-ma-tau-wai/

https://tridentine.catholic.org.hk/

I see Davis as posting facts, not pro CCP, but pro Chinese.  My problem with this situation is the extreme real estate prices in Canada, caused from laundered money by Hong Kong Chinese.  I hope the CCP does extradite the money launderers from Hong Kong.  If they do then young Canadians may eventually be able to afford a home in Canada.  Because as it stands right now a high majority of young Canadians have given up hope of ever being able to buy a home in Canada.

Thanks. So, whilst claiming the PRC is a paradise he actually lives off the few remaining freedoms HK has? 

FYI, actual Hong Kongers would not at all be surprised that an expat who can easily jet off to safety after raking in $$$ in HK doesn't give a toss about their freedoms.

Also re home prices, this will never happen lol. Rich Chinese will always invest their money abroad because whilst their wealth will never be safe in China (as the state can seize it at any moment) it is safe abroad, this applies even to those that are pro-CCP. The issue is not then money launders so much as Canada's immigration laws (as there will always be an endless supply of Rich Chinese with money to invest). That said, there are plenty of places in Canada with affordable housing, just not in major cities. I think that is pretty much the same anywhere in the West or, to an extent, in the world...

No, not just in major cities.  I live just about two hours north east of Toronto.  About three or four years ago I asked a local real estate agent how a young family is suppose to buy a home around here.  He said well they can't, they'd have to move north to find a home they could afford.  So locals have to move out to make room for newcomers.  This has been going on for quite a while.  Chinese money launderers buy an over priced home in Toronto, those that sold it basically just won the lottery and move out of Toronto where the local real estate agents are putting prices up because they know that anyone that is buying a home in the area now comes from Toronto, where they just won the real estate lottery.  This has been happening for years now.  Both Chinese money launderers and Canada's stupid immigration laws are causing the problem.

[Tales]

trencath,

your point about the PRC being such an amazing place

whilst claiming the PRC is a paradise

I never said nor insinuated either.  Defending a country or people from falsehoods stated does not thus mean said person believes that place is amazing.  I will wait patiently for your retraction and apology. 

Separately, that I live in Hong Kong has only been mentioned by me tens of times over the past year or two.

May I suggest to some of you that you put in more effort into attempting to understand the idea your interlocutor is attempting to convey.  Mikemac sees it, Jayne sees it, Vetus sees it.  It is rather simple.  People put out various accusations against China.  When I believe they are wrong I make an argument against it.