Favorite reasons (Scriptural or other) why you're Catholic, not Protestant.

[Xavier]

Dear friends, what are some of the top reasons you are Catholic Christians, and not Protestants? They can be Scriptural or other.

Some of mine.

1. The Holy Eucharist, Bread of Eternal Life: (cf. Jn 6:47-59, 1 Cor 10:16-18 etc). Jn 6:54-55 in particular is worth citing to our Protestant friends, [54] "Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. [55] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day." which shows that no one should hope to receive the grace of eternal Life without the Body and Blood of the Lord.

2. The Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen of Saints: (cf. Gen 3:15, Sir 24:24-26 Luk 1:28;41-43;48, Rev 11:19-12:1;5;17 etc) The Angel so reverently salutes the holy Mother of God "[28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." St. John the Baptist leaps for joy when Jesus and Mary come to visit, paralleling 2 Sam 6:9-11 when the holy Ark of God comes to David. The Ark brings God's blessings to the house it goes, and Mary is the Ark of the New Testament. This is confirmed in Rev 11 and 12 where the Ark of God is seen in Heaven, and immediately there appears the Woman crowned with the Sun, with the moon under Her feet, and a Crown of 12 stars upon Her sacred Head - showing Her all-surpassing excellence in grace and glory among creatures. In verse 5, She is identified as Mother of God, and in verse 17 as Mother also of all Christians. She is the Virgin Daughter of Zion so often spoken of in the Prophets, at once Daughter of Israel and Mother of the Church.

3. The Holy Angels of God and their Protection: (cf. Tob 12:11-15, Mat 18:10, Rev 18:4), We see clearly that the holy Angels are not passive, as some Protestants sometimes seem to think, but ever praying for the Church on earth, and offering up prayers for us. "And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the Angel." Jesus says all children are assigned a guardian Angel and therefore protect their children, ever seeing the face of the Father and obtaining protection for them. There is a beautiful event in Tobias, which Protestants altogether lack, "[11] I discover then the truth unto you, and I will not hide the secret from you. [12] When thou didst pray with tears, and didst bury the dead, and didst leave thy dinner, and hide the dead by day in thy house, and bury them by night, I offered thy prayer to the Lord. [13] And because thou wast acceptable to God, it was necessary that temptation should prove thee. [14] And now the Lord hath sent me to heal thee, and to deliver Sara thy son's wife from the devil. [15] For I am the angel Raphael, one of the seven, who stand before the Lord." where St. Raphael showed the power of his intercession.

It is the Heavenly Father's Providence itself that so lovingly provides us with the Angels and the Saints, who the Scripture shows us as engaged in prayer in Heaven. So He wills that we ask them to pray for us, unite our prayers with them, so that they may present our prayers to the Holy Trinity. We ask other imperfect people on earth to pray for us, so much more should we beseech the Angels and Saints, who have attained theosis and been made perfect by the grace of Christ, to pray for our necessities.

4.  The Saints of God made perfect and their intercession with Christ in Heaven (Rev 5:8, Rev 6:9-11 etc): In Heaven, we see likewise that the Saints of God, now made perfect as their Heavenly Father is perfect, with martyrs especially dressed in white, aware of events on earth, offering up prayers like incense before God, and interceding before the Throne of the Most High. It follows that, contra Luther and the Protestants, we glorify God when we honor the Saints, and we delight God when we ask the prayers of the Saints. Since as St. James the Apostle clearly says, "For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.", it is an act of humility to recognize the Saints as now fully justified in their complete union with Christ and request their continual prayers for us while we pursue the same end.

5. The Holy Souls in Purgatory/the doctrine of merits/rewards, venial sins/purification etc (1 Cor 3:13-15, 1 Pet 3:18-20; 4:6, Mat 5:26) The text is clear in teaching two things, 13 "Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." first (1) that all good works done with faith in Jesus Christ receive their own particular reward in heaven, the same can be shown from numberless texts of the Saviour Himself, such as where He says those who fast and pray in secret will receive their reward, some will receive the reward of an Apostle etc, that even one cup of cold water given out of love has its reward, and so on; wherein it is also shown that merits differ in the Saints and Angels, and not all are alike in the final resurrection, as St. Paul also says in 1 Cor 15. Mother Mary, St. Joseph, St. John the Baptist are greatest among the Saints, St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael are greatest among the Angels, as we learn from Tradition. (2) The second part clearly shows that bad works will be burnt up, require purification, the man in Christ who has worked badly will need to be saved through fire, which is Purgatory. Purgatory is taught in 2 Mac 12, where St. Paul prays for his departed friend Onesiphorus to find Mercy from the Lord on the Last Day, in the Prison St. Peter speaks of where the Lord preached in spirit the Gospel, of which the Lord Himself says one will not leave until one has paid the last farthing, and so on. These texts clearly indicate an intermediate purification.

Thoughts?

[Kreuzritter]

The Eucharist, the sacraments, the worship of Mary, the invocation of angels, the prayers to saints, the liturgy, the iconography, the monasticism, the asceticism, the tradition - and not least the monarchic and hierarchical tendencies - everything that Protestants hate about Catholicism and "religion" is the very reason I'm not Protestant.

[John Lamb]

Authority. Protestant preachers are not sent by God. They are false shepherds.

[Michael Wilson]

My favorite scripture passage is Jn. 6. 47-59. I think that is one of the most beautiful passages in the whole of S.Scripture.

[Matto]

The Church's teachings on sexual morality.

[TheReturnofLive]

Dear friends, what are some of the top reasons you are Catholic Christians, and not Protestants? They can be Scriptural or other.

Some of mine.

1. The Holy Eucharist, Bread of Eternal Life: (cf. Jn 6:47-59, 1 Cor 10:16-18 etc). Jn 6:54-55 in particular is worth citing to our Protestant friends, [54] "Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. [55] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day." which shows that no one should hope to receive the grace of eternal Life without the Body and Blood of the Lord.

2. The Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen of Saints: (cf. Gen 3:15, Sir 24:24-26 Luk 1:28;41-43;48, Rev 11:19-12:1;5;17 etc) The Angel so reverently salutes the holy Mother of God "[28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." St. John the Baptist leaps for joy when Jesus and Mary come to visit, paralleling 2 Sam 6:9-11 when the holy Ark of God comes to David. The Ark brings God's blessings to the house it goes, and Mary is the Ark of the New Testament. This is confirmed in Rev 11 and 12 where the Ark of God is seen in Heaven, and immediately there appears the Woman crowned with the Sun, with the moon under Her feet, and a Crown of 12 stars upon Her sacred Head - showing Her all-surpassing excellence in grace and glory among creatures. In verse 5, She is identified as Mother of God, and in verse 17 as Mother also of all Christians. She is the Virgin Daughter of Zion so often spoken of in the Prophets, at once Daughter of Israel and Mother of the Church.

3. The Holy Angels of God and their Protection: (cf. Tob 12:11-15, Mat 18:10, Rev 18:4), We see clearly that the holy Angels are not passive, as some Protestants sometimes seem to think, but ever praying for the Church on earth, and offering up prayers for us. "And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the Angel." Jesus says all children are assigned a guardian Angel and therefore protect their children, ever seeing the face of the Father and obtaining protection for them. There is a beautiful event in Tobias, which Protestants altogether lack, "[11] I discover then the truth unto you, and I will not hide the secret from you. [12] When thou didst pray with tears, and didst bury the dead, and didst leave thy dinner, and hide the dead by day in thy house, and bury them by night, I offered thy prayer to the Lord. [13] And because thou wast acceptable to God, it was necessary that temptation should prove thee. [14] And now the Lord hath sent me to heal thee, and to deliver Sara thy son's wife from the devil. [15] For I am the angel Raphael, one of the seven, who stand before the Lord." where St. Raphael showed the power of his intercession.

It is the Heavenly Father's Providence itself that so lovingly provides us with the Angels and the Saints, who the Scripture shows us as engaged in prayer in Heaven. So He wills that we ask them to pray for us, unite our prayers with them, so that they may present our prayers to the Holy Trinity. We ask other imperfect people on earth to pray for us, so much more should we beseech the Angels and Saints, who have attained theosis and been made perfect by the grace of Christ, to pray for our necessities.

4.  The Saints of God made perfect and their intercession with Christ in Heaven (Rev 5:8, Rev 6:9-11 etc): In Heaven, we see likewise that the Saints of God, now made perfect as their Heavenly Father is perfect, with martyrs especially dressed in white, aware of events on earth, offering up prayers like incense before God, and interceding before the Throne of the Most High. It follows that, contra Luther and the Protestants, we glorify God when we honor the Saints, and we delight God when we ask the prayers of the Saints. Since as St. James the Apostle clearly says, "For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.", it is an act of humility to recognize the Saints as now fully justified in their complete union with Christ and request their continual prayers for us while we pursue the same end.

5. The Holy Souls in Purgatory/the doctrine of merits/rewards, venial sins/purification etc (1 Cor 3:13-15, 1 Pet 3:18-20; 4:6, Mat 5:26) The text is clear in teaching two things, 13 "Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." first (1) that all good works done with faith in Jesus Christ receive their own particular reward in heaven, the same can be shown from numberless texts of the Saviour Himself, such as where He says those who fast and pray in secret will receive their reward, some will receive the reward of an Apostle etc, that even one cup of cold water given out of love has its reward, and so on; wherein it is also shown that merits differ in the Saints and Angels, and not all are alike in the final resurrection, as St. Paul also says in 1 Cor 15. Mother Mary, St. Joseph, St. John the Baptist are greatest among the Saints, St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael are greatest among the Angels, as we learn from Tradition. (2) The second part clearly shows that bad works will be burnt up, require purification, the man in Christ who has worked badly will need to be saved through fire, which is Purgatory. Purgatory is taught in 2 Mac 12, where St. Paul prays for his departed friend Onesiphorus to find Mercy from the Lord on the Last Day, in the Prison St. Peter speaks of where the Lord preached in spirit the Gospel, of which the Lord Himself says one will not leave until one has paid the last farthing, and so on. These texts clearly indicate an intermediate purification.

Thoughts?

With the exception of #5, all of these things exist as doctrinal beliefs not only in Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Assyrian Church of the East, but even in some Protestant sects like the Anglican Catholic Church.

[Tales]

I would note that this thread is about why to not be Protestant - not why not be Orthodox.

Anyways, very briefly:

1) What did Jesus do?  Did He write a Bible or found a Church?

2) Sola scriptura is nonsense.  It is ashitorical, goes against the structure Christ left for us, it is absurd given that the printing press didn't exist for another 1,400 years, its absolutely failed in practice (and immediately so as the Revolt immediately splintered into countless warring groups), and Scripture itself in numerous places refutes sola scriptura.

3) Sola fide, the entire Bible refutes sola fide.  If works are unrelated to salvation then the Bible should be only one or two verses long.

4) Specifically for the Calvinists, this theology makes God a monster.  It also makes everything Jesus did nonsense - if it is 100% up to Him and there is nothing we can do at all, then why bother coming down and living amongst us?  What was the point of all the teaching, the parables, the warnings, the admonitions and guidance?  He could have offered His sacrifice in total obscurity and saved His elect because under Calvinism it utterly matters not what anyone does, knows, believes, or thinks.  Under Calvinism Jesus basically came down to toy with everyone, waving it in our faces that "Hey guys, there is a Heaven and a Hell, and many of you are going to burn for ever, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it."

Of all the Protestants, the Calvinists are the most thinking bunch, but their reasoning ends up making the Gospel evil and superfluous.

[Michael Wilson]

re. "Calvinism"; yes, the Calvinist denial of free will in matters relating to salvation, make man a mere puppet in the hands of an arbitrary and sadistic puppet master.

[Vetus Ordo]

Calvinist theory of predestination and reprobation is not that different from Augustinianism and Thomism.

Predestination always involves the fact that it is God who chooses, not man. "You did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 15:16). Ultimately, whatever you may think of such a complex issue, there are only two options: either God determines or God is determined. Regardless of the difficulties in harmonizing human autonomy with divine causality, I firmly believe He determines, since the alternative is unthinkable.

[TheReturnofLive]

I would note that this thread is about why to not be Protestant - not why not be Orthodox.

Yes, but several Anglicans have all of these things present doctrinally, which was what I was specifically bringing up.

And if you consider the Old Catholics Protestants for being in communion with the Anglicans, they believe in these things too.

[TheReturnofLive]

Calvinist theory of predestination and reprobation is not that different from Augustinianism and Thomism.

Predestination always involves the fact that it is God who chooses, not man. "You did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 15:16). Ultimately, whatever you may think of such a complex issue, there are only two options: either God determines or God is determined. Regardless of the difficulties in harmonizing human autonomy with divine causality, I firmly believe He determines, since the alternative is unthinkable.

I was about to bring that up - if we were going strictly off of Augustinian theology and the subsequent Councils promoting it (the Council of Orange with semi-Pelagianism for example), Calvinism is just the logical deduction of pure, unadulterated Augustinian theology.

If it weren't for other Church Fathers and Tradition, which require Free Will - Roman Catholicism would be Calvinism.

[Vetus Ordo]

Calvinist theory of predestination and reprobation is not that different from Augustinianism and Thomism.

Predestination always involves the fact that it is God who chooses, not man. "You did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 15:16). Ultimately, whatever you may think of such a complex issue, there are only two options: either God determines or God is determined. Regardless of the difficulties in harmonizing human autonomy with divine causality, I firmly believe He determines, since the alternative is unthinkable.

I was about to bring that up - if we were going strictly off of Augustinian theology and the subsequent Councils promoting it (the Council of Orange with semi-Pelagianism for example), Calvinism is just the logical deduction of pure, unadulterated Augustinian theology.

If it weren't for other Church Fathers and Tradition, which require Free Will - Roman Catholicism would be Calvinism.

No it wouldn't because Calvinism is not simply about Predestination.

And "free will" is a misnomer anyway. The only truly free will is God's. Everything else, including our own, flows from it and is determined by it.

[Chestertonian]

Besides the obvious stuff like 7 valid sacraments, ancient ritual and tradition, beauty, etc... I just can't stand the way Protestants talk, especially the more fundagelical ones.  "Come join us for contemporary worship and fellowshipping with other believers."

- depriving little babies of baptismal Graces

-taking every verse in the Bible literally except John 6

"accountability partners"

Bible-olatry... putting Scripture above Christ himself

The constant need to reinvent the wheel and draw on 2000 years of tradition and wisdom.  it's like studying physics but not being able to build on those who have gone before you.

- Our Lady.  I'm a Jewish convert so can't help being a mamas boy

[Tales]

Regarding the recent comments on Augustinianism & Thomism:

Heresies are usually not utterly out of the blue, like say with outliers like Mormonism.  Most are the perversion of some element of Catholic theology due to hyperfocus on that specific topic.  That Calvinism is similar to (some) teachings of Augustine & Thomas is to be expected.  Calvinists hyperfocus on (some) passages of Scripture and (some) teachings of Augustine, combined together with their human rationality and ultra sovereignty of God, come to the double predestination.

Of all the Protestants, I find the Calvinists to be the most methodical and thinking bunch.  But they are still wrong.  God did not set out riddles.  Scripture is not a puzzle to be solved.  Salvation is not a mystery that we can unravel and fully grasp.  Blessed are not the intelligent for they shall understand it all.

Some will approach the Faith as thus:  Jesus founded a Church, I will do and believe as His Church teaches, no matter how confusing any specific teaching is (hello, Trinity anyone?).

Others approach the Faith as thus:  Jesus had teachings, they are rather confusing, I will use my intellect to figure them out and do & believe as such.

My approach is the former.  I think it is madness to think that we can dot every i and cross every t on the designs and abilities of God.  If the Church tells me God already knows if I am to be saved or damned AND I myself am a free participant in making this come to happen, then I believe it.  I cannot make sense of it, I obviously see why this, to our limited understanding, has errors in it, but I trust that the unknown unknowns of the infinite God have their way and make it indeed be true.

The other approach does not magically clean up "errors" (as per our limited understanding), anyways.  There are obvious errors in Calvinism, such as making the entire Gospel bad news and fully superfluous.  It also makes God evil and contradicts Him being love.  If the second approach to the Faith at least made complete sense it would be a true contender for a path to follow, but it just leads to more errors.

Either way you are going to end up having "errors" and you will either drive yourself nuts trying to tie every bow or go apostate.  There are tragic examples on this board of both type of person, and they need our prayers.

And yes, I understand that my path is not clean at all either, given the history of the Church - what with its endless fights with heretics (at the time of the heresy whom is to know which side is the heretic?), its long debates over theology, and of course the current times we live in.  But I believe that, at the base level, to be saved one must be in the Body of Christ, and that Body is His Church, and that His Church is the Catholic (+ Orthodox, to an extent) Church.

[Tales]

Playing off of what Ches just wrote, does it bother anyone else that those whom most vehemently deny the graces of baptism call themselves Baptists?  It takes trolling to another level.