?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??????

Started by Ancilla Domini, May 13, 2014, 11:42:40 AM

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Ancilla Domini

?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??????

http://constantinoupoli.com/%CF%83%CF%87%CE%AD%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BF-%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%B1-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%BB%CE%AE-%CF%87%CF%81%CE%AE%CF%83%CE%B7-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CE%B1%CE%B3%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82-%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%86%CE%AF%CE%B1/

??? ????????? ? ???????? ??? ??????, ???? ??? ?????????? ??????? ? ???????? ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ??????. ??? ????????? ????????, ?? ?????? ??? ?????????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ???????????? ???????????? ??? ?? ????????? ??? ?????????????? ?????????? ???????? ?? ???? ?? ???????, ???????? ???? ???? ??? ????????????? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ???????? ???????? ??? ???? ??????? ???.

?????? ???? ? ??????? ????? ??? ???????? ???? ???????? ????????????? ? ??????????? ????????? ????? ?????????, ?? ?????? ??? ??????????????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????????. ? ?????????? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????????, ??? 2? ?????, 80? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ?????????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???????, ???? ???????? ?? ?????????? ??? ? ??????????.

? ????????? ?????????????????? ??? ?? ??????????? AKP ??? ????????? ?????????, ???? ??? ?????????? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ????????. ??? ??????? ??? ????????? ??? ????? ?????????? ??? ????????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ??????. ????? ? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????????? ??????? ??? ?????????, ?? ?????? ?????????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???????, ??? ???? ???????? ??????? ????? ????????????? ????????????? -??? ???????? ???? ??? AKP- ??????????? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ?? ????????????? ??????????.

??? ???? ????????, ? ????????? «Radical» ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?????????? ????????? ??? ??? ?????, ? ???????? ?? ???????????? ???? ???? ????? ???? 29 ????? ?? ????? ???????????? ???????????? ??????. ? ?????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??? ??? «??????????????? ??????», ??? ?? ???????????? ??? ??????????????? ??? ?????? (?? ????????? ???? ???????? ???????????) ??? ??? ??????? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ??????? ?? ????? ????????.

??? AKP ???????? ??? ? ??????? ??? ????????? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ??? ????????, ?? ?????? ??? ??? ?????. ??????, ? ??????????? ???????????? ???????? ?????? (??? ???? ?????????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ????????? ????????) ?????????? ?? ??????????? ?? ????, ???????? ??? «? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ?????????, ???? ??? ???? ???? ??????????? ??? ????????? ??????».

??? ?????? ?????? ? ??????????????? «???? ?????», ????? ?? ???????? ???????, ???????????? ??? «????????? ????», ?????? ???? ?????????????, ??? ?????????? ?? ???????????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ???????????????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????????. ??????? ?? ??? ?????????, ?? ??????????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????????? ? ?????????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ?? ?? ???????? ??? ?? ???????? ?? ??????????????? ?? ??????? (?? ?????????, ??? ?????? ???????? ??' ???? ?? ????? ?????????? ???????, ???? ?????????? ?? ???? ?????).

?? ?????????? ??? «???? ?????» ??????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??????????, ? ????? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??? ???????????? ????????? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ?????. ? ?????????? ???????????? ???????? ??? ??????? ??? ??????????, ???????? ??? «?? ????? ?? ????????????????? ? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????????, ?? ?????? ?? ???????????? ?? ???????? ????????». ?? ???????? ?????????? ??? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ????, ?????? ?????? ??? ??????????????? ??? ??????.

??? ??????? ???? ?? ??????????? ????? ???????? ??????. ? ?. ???????????? ?????????? ??? ????????? ???. ?? ??????? ???????????? ?? ????????, ??? ???? 25 ????? ?? ?????????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??????????. ????????? ??? ?? ???????? ???????????? ????? ?? ??????, ???? ??? ? ??????????, ??? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ? ?????????? ????????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????????????. ?? ??? ??????? ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???? ??????? ??? ???????????? ??????.

?????????????? ??????? ??? ???? ?????, ?????? ???? ????????? ??? ?? ?????? ?????????? ???? ???????????, ?????? ?? ?????????? ??????? ??? ?????? – «? ????????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??????????», ???? ???????????? ?????. ??? ??????? ????????? ?? ??? ????? ? ????????, ? ?????? ????? ????????? ??? ?????, ??? ??? 29? ????? ????? ????? ???????????? ?????? ?????????? ????? ?????????? ???????. ?????? ?????????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ad hoc ???????????, ??? ???????????? ?????? ??????. «???? ???????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????», ?????? ???????? ??????????, ? ?????? ?????????, ??????, ??? «?? ?????????? ????? ???????????. ? ???? ????? ????? ? ??????????? ????? ????? ???? ????»...

JuniorCouncilor

???????? ???? ???????? ? ????? ???????? ??? ???.

Ancilla Domini

#2
?????????? ?????? ????????, ???????? ??????o?;

JuniorCouncilor

?????? ????? ?? ?????????? ??? ???????;

Ancilla Domini


JuniorCouncilor

????????. ????????? ?? ??? ???????.

Studeo.  Credebam te iam scire.

Ancilla Domini


JuniorCouncilor

????? ????? ? ??? ?????;

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWDDVuxFboI[/yt]

Cur rogas quid iam scis?

(I ask mostly just as an excuse to play in three languages and post a cool video.)

Ancilla Domini

Why do I ask what I already know?

To be sure, to be sure.

Now, does Hibernian English count as a fourth language?


Ancilla Domini

Honestly, JC, you've completely derailed my attempt to lure out any Modern Greek-speaking lurkers.

I might as well ask, what kind of Greek are you speaking? I can barely make heads or tails of it. It doesn't quite look Ancient, but it isn't Modern Standard either. Something in between?

JuniorCouncilor

Quote from: Ancilla Domini on May 15, 2014, 08:38:28 PM
Why do I ask what I already know?

To be sure, to be sure.

Now, does Hibernian English count as a fourth language?

To be sure-- is that a quote from something?  It sounds like something one of the Ewoks said in Star Wars.  It might have been the Jawas, though-- the languages are apparently very closely related...

Hibernian English-- as in an Irish dialect?  Nescio vere, non sic putarem.

Quote from: Ancilla Domini on May 15, 2014, 08:58:17 PM
Honestly, JC, you've completely derailed my attempt to lure out any Modern Greek-speaking lurkers.

I might as well ask, what kind of Greek are you speaking? I can barely make heads or tails of it. It doesn't quite look Ancient, but it isn't Modern Standard either. Something in between?

We're still on page one, so all of my efforts to completely derail are not exactly what I would call stellar.  In any case, now that you've told them what you're up to, maybe they'll come out of the woodwork.

I can't imagine my Greek is "in between" ancient and modern, because I know absolutely nil of modern, except that they've abolished the dative case.  There is a TON of variety in ancient Greek-- we talk about there being at least four major dialects:  Attic, Homeric (itself a mix of Ionic, Attic, and Aeolic), Ionic, and Koine.  There's also the Doric dialect, which is what you'll find in most choral lyric.

The Greek I use is basically Attic Greek, which is, if you like, the Greek of Plato.  If you're a real connoisseur of Ancient Greek, then you might chalk the fact that it doesn't quite look ancient up to the fact that I'm not terribly good at composing in the language-- which was my reason for "derailing" in the first place, so that I might practice.  More likely, though, you just haven't had quite the exposure to it that I have, and thus you are unfamiliar with some of the very common techniques of "brachylogy"-- verbal shortcuts, if you will.  Of course, it may be the case that they still use some of these in modern Greek, but there are a ton of them in the ancient.  An example would be when I opposed the ancient Greek tongue, ? ????? ???????? ??????, with the modern, ? ???.  No need to repeat ???????? or ??????, obviously, so we just repeat the definite article-- and then we use the adverbs ?????, long ago, and ???, now, to say:  the ancient Greek tongue (or more literally, the Greek tongue of long ago) and the modern Greek tongue (the Greek tongue of now).

[/pedantry]


Ancilla Domini

#11
I have almost no knowledge of Ancient Greek. I knew that you had studied it, but I thought you were using something more modern here because I saw that you used the lunate sigma, which I had thought was a Byzantine convention. At any rate your vocabulary was clearly archaic as well as some of the structures you were using. Modern Greek for instance does not have an infinitive. So, yes, it took me some time to decipher what you were saying, though the process was interesting!  :)

But obviously we can't communicate effectively speaking such different varieties of the language. And it's very confusing for a beginner like me. If you want to practice Ancient Greek, why not start a thread? I'll bet there are at least a few people here who have studied Koine.  :)     

JuniorCouncilor

Quote from: Ancilla Domini on May 19, 2014, 09:09:04 PM
I have almost no knowledge of Ancient Greek. I knew that you had studied it, but I thought you were using something more modern here because I saw that you used the lunate sigma, which I had thought was a Byzantine convention.

I think the lunate sigma went in and out of usage a couple of different times.  Even to this day Oxford Classical Texts' critical editions use them-- my copy of the plays of Sophocles, for example.  That said, I think it has always been standard to use the lunate sigma at the end of words, which is the only place the font I was using them does use them, I believe.

Quote
At any rate your vocabulary was clearly archaic as well as some of the structures you were using. Modern Greek for instance does not have an infinitive. So, yes, it took me some time to decipher what you were saying, though the process was interesting!  :)

But obviously we can't communicate effectively speaking such different varieties of the language. And it's very confusing for a beginner like me. If you want to practice Ancient Greek, why not start a thread? I'll bet there are at least a few people here who have studied Koine.  :)   

I may, at that-- though I'm not much of a thread-starter.  At any rate, I apologize for the confusion.  I thought you might enjoy it more than silence-- which, I'm afraid, is what you've gotten otherwise.

Ancilla Domini

Quote from: JuniorCouncilor on May 20, 2014, 11:59:52 AM
I may, at that-- though I'm not much of a thread-starter.  At any rate, I apologize for the confusion.  I thought you might enjoy it more than silence-- which, I'm afraid, is what you've gotten otherwise.

No worries, JC.  :)

It's true, my threads in this subforum don't get many replies, but they get a good number of views. I like to think people find them interesting, even if they don't respond.  :)

Christopher McAvoy

Out of the approximately 1000 greek catholics who exist in greece, none are using this forum!  :o