The "Immaculata"

[mikemac]

The old church that burned down at St. Mary's in 1978, shortly after the SSPX bought the campus, was named "Immaculata Church". That is why the new one they are going to build will use that name.

The cornerstone for the original church was laid in 1907. It is not a new title.

Richard Malcolm just posted a video of the plans for the new Immaculata Church today.  Beautiful.

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=22316.0

I had no idea there were so many Traditional Catholics at St. Mary's, Kansas.

[dymphnaw]

Philip. I've noticed that a lot of trads can't forgive  St. Maximilian for sacrificing his life to save a Jewish man.  I've also noticed an endless need to obsess over the Society and accuse them of not being pure enough. Often the people who who make these criticisms don't know enough about Latin, church history or the vastness of experience and custom within the Roman Latin rite and are not as smart as they think they are.

[Gardener]

Philip. I've noticed that a lot of trads can't forgive  St. Maximilian for sacrificing his life to save a Jewish man.  I've also noticed an endless need to obsess over the Society and accuse them of not being pure enough. Often the people who who make these criticisms don't know enough about Latin, church history or the vastness of experience and custom within the Roman Latin rite and are not as smart as they think they are.

Just a minor quibble, but Franciszek Gajowniczek was a Polish Catholic. Not sure where he got turned into a Jewish man, but it is a common misconception of the narrative of St. Maximilian's charitable sacrifice in his place. The prisoner who had appeared to escape, prompting the selection of 10 for the starvation bunker in retribution, was later found dead in the cesspit of the latrine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franciszek_Gajowniczek
----
Busy, so I can't really get to the rest of the thread right now.

[Philip G.]

dymphnaw - St. Mary's is a power source here in the USA; they have influence.  And, not directed at you, but why give at best such a darn about a square stone?  Jesus is the cornerstone. 

There are two scenarios with immaculata as I see it. 

One is that removing the word conception from the title is potentially against the second commandment, because being so officially casual or neglectful in completing the title shows a lack of reverence.  It would arguably be like me referring to Jesus Christ as JC.  It is irreverent. 

The second is that if it refers to feminine manifestation of the concept, then there therefore must be a masculine manifestation.  But, that is not Jesus, as was pointed out that the virginal conception of Jesus is not to be confused with the immaculate conception.  So, who is this male immaculately conceived? 

[Philip G.]

Gardener - I found TIA commenting on whether he was jewish or catholic.  They think he was jewish - https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B238_Kolbe.html

Whether Kolbe Died for a Jew
WhatPeopleAreSaying02_Cir_sm.jpg - 24011 Bytes

    Dear Editor,

    Regarding the article New Saints: A Lack of Consistency on modern saints, I wanted to point out that St. Maximilian Kolbe did not die for a Jew as is stated therein. He was arrested before the Nazis had started rounding up Jews in Poland and died for a fellow-Catholic father of a family, Franz Gajowniczek (New Saints and Blesseds of the Catholic Church, 206).

         M.S.

    burbtn.gif - 43 Bytes


    The Editor responds:

    Dear Mrs. M.S.,

    Thank you for interest in reading my article.

    I believe that the source of your statement is not accurate. At the time of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe's beatification, when his life first came to international attention, it was much easier to find the information that he had offered his life for a Polish Jew, the sergeant named Franciszek Gajowniczek. Later, a kind of 'clean-up job' was systematically carried out, deleting any mention of the Jewish origin of Mr. Gajowniczek. I don't know for sure who is behind this strange initiative of changing the facts, but many Catholic progressivist and politically correct sources have adopted that practice.

    This 'revisionist' work, however, has not been completely successful, and you still can find the original information in some places. Below, I offer you several of these sources, which I saved in TIA files, so that they won't also suddenly disappear from the Internet.

        In a sermon delivered on July 28, 2007, Bishop Kevin Vann of Forth Worth affirmed that Franz Gajowniczek was a Jew. In fact, he stated: "In 1941, Maximilian Kolbe had exchanged his life for that of a Polish Jewish man." You can verify this quote here.

        The Jewish-sponsored organization S9.com, which specializes in biographies, says this under the entry Gajowniczek, Franciszek: "Polish Jewish farmer, soldier, and Holocaust survivor saved from being killed by Nazis at Auschwitz when Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to die in his place." You can check it here.

        The website Christian Friends of Israel also confirms the Jewish origin of the beneficiary of Fr. Kolbe's act of mercy. These are its words: "One of the ten selected to die was a Jewish man named Franciszek Gajowniczek, who began to cry out: 'My wife! My children! I will never see them again!' It was at this moment that Maximilian stepped forward as a true friend. He said: '...let me take his place.'" You can read this text here.

        Jewish journalist David Alton affirms: "Franciszek Gajowniczek, the Jewish prisoner whose life was purchased by Maximilian Kolbe, survived the camps." You may find this affirmation here by scrolling down the page to the first paragraph under the sub-title Paying the Price.

        In one of his homilies, Fr. Phil Bloom of Seattle speaks about the sacrifice of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, saying: "One of the men selected was a farmer named Franciszek Gajowniczek. He was in Auschwitz only because he was Jew." This statement can be verified here.

        Author Rafael Perez Piñero writes on page 14 of his book What Love Has Merited for Us, (Nos Mereci el Amor): "This is what motivated ... Maximilian Kolbe to give his life for a Jewish father of a family named Franciszek Gajowniczek, who died on March 14, 1995." You can read the Spanish text here.

        The Spanish website Radio-Aficcionados (under the responsibility of José Miguel Orueta y Michelena) chose Maximilian Kolbe as its Patron. In the biography it presents of this holy religious and Founder of the Militia Immaculata, it reports:

        "The Germans randomly chose various prisoners to be executed; among them was a Jew, a sergeant of the Polish Army called Franciszek Gajowiniczek who had a wife and children. When he was selected, he exclaimed: 'My poor children!' Hearing this, Maximiliano Maria Kolbe Dabrowska offered to die in his place.' You can find this text in Spanish here.

    I hope these data sufficiently confirm what I affirmed in my article - that Fr. Kolbe gave his live for a Jew - which was common knowledge until some years ago.

         Cordially,

         Atila S. Guimarães

[Philip G.]

I think it would be worthwhile to learn more about M. Kolbe's story in light of what I now know/believe about the concentration camps.  And, that is that there are enormous lies surrounding the camps in it seems all regards.  This not surprisingly has led me to doubt the information about M. Kolbe. 

[TheReturnofLive]

Even before the Immaculate Conception was made dogma in Roman Catholicism, the title of "Pure" or "Immaculate" was often applied to the Virgin Mary in reference to either her sinlessness or her virginity. The Orthodox, which don't subscribe to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, use such a title in exactly these senses, as the Hymn "Agni Parthene" uses, which was composed after the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed and which even the Byzantine Catholic Churches use. Another prayer service called the "Small Paraklesis" also refers to the Virgin Mary as "The Spotless One."

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/agni-parthene-rejoice-o-bride-unwedded.html
https://www.goarch.org/-/the-service-of-the-small-paraklesis-intercessory-prayer-to-the-most-holy-theotokos

Even if "Immaculate" did not explicitly refer to the Immaculate Conception in the context of Roman praxis, the only other two definitions - being sinless or being a Virgin - cannot possibly be seen as heretical from a Roman Catholic perspective.

[Sophia3]

Even before the Immaculate Conception was made dogma in Roman Catholicism, the title of "Pure" or "Immaculate" was often applied to the Virgin Mary in reference to either her sinlessness or her virginity. The Orthodox, which don't subscribe to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, use such a title in exactly these senses, as the Hymn "Agni Parthene" uses, which was composed after the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed and which even the Byzantine Catholic Churches use. Another prayer service called the "Small Paraklesis" also refers to the Virgin Mary as "The Spotless One."

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/agni-parthene-rejoice-o-bride-unwedded.html
https://www.goarch.org/-/the-service-of-the-small-paraklesis-intercessory-prayer-to-the-most-holy-theotokos

Even if "Immaculate" did not explicitly refer to the Immaculate Conception in the context of Roman praxis, the only other two definitions - being sinless or being a Virgin - cannot possibly be seen as heretical from a Roman Catholic perspective.

It seems modernist to me and I know Novus Ordo priests who are heavily promoting it.

[Gardener]

What seems modernist to you?

[Heinrich]

Even before the Immaculate Conception was made dogma in Roman Catholicism, the title of "Pure" or "Immaculate" was often applied to the Virgin Mary in reference to either her sinlessness or her virginity. The Orthodox, which don't subscribe to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, use such a title in exactly these senses, as the Hymn "Agni Parthene" uses, which was composed after the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed and which even the Byzantine Catholic Churches use. Another prayer service called the "Small Paraklesis" also refers to the Virgin Mary as "The Spotless One."

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/agni-parthene-rejoice-o-bride-unwedded.html
https://www.goarch.org/-/the-service-of-the-small-paraklesis-intercessory-prayer-to-the-most-holy-theotokos

Even if "Immaculate" did not explicitly refer to the Immaculate Conception in the context of Roman praxis, the only other two definitions - being sinless or being a Virgin - cannot possibly be seen as heretical from a Roman Catholic perspective.

It seems modernist to me and I know Novus Ordo priests who are heavily promoting it.

Care to provide a link to some who are?

[Gardener]

Gardener - I found TIA commenting on whether he was jewish or catholic.  They think he was jewish - https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/B238_Kolbe.html

Whether Kolbe Died for a Jew
WhatPeopleAreSaying02_Cir_sm.jpg - 24011 Bytes

    Dear Editor,

    Regarding the article New Saints: A Lack of Consistency on modern saints, I wanted to point out that St. Maximilian Kolbe did not die for a Jew as is stated therein. He was arrested before the Nazis had started rounding up Jews in Poland and died for a fellow-Catholic father of a family, Franz Gajowniczek (New Saints and Blesseds of the Catholic Church, 206).

         M.S.

    burbtn.gif - 43 Bytes


    The Editor responds:

    Dear Mrs. M.S.,

    Thank you for interest in reading my article.

    I believe that the source of your statement is not accurate. At the time of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe's beatification, when his life first came to international attention, it was much easier to find the information that he had offered his life for a Polish Jew, the sergeant named Franciszek Gajowniczek. Later, a kind of 'clean-up job' was systematically carried out, deleting any mention of the Jewish origin of Mr. Gajowniczek. I don't know for sure who is behind this strange initiative of changing the facts, but many Catholic progressivist and politically correct sources have adopted that practice.

    This 'revisionist' work, however, has not been completely successful, and you still can find the original information in some places. Below, I offer you several of these sources, which I saved in TIA files, so that they won't also suddenly disappear from the Internet.

        In a sermon delivered on July 28, 2007, Bishop Kevin Vann of Forth Worth affirmed that Franz Gajowniczek was a Jew. In fact, he stated: "In 1941, Maximilian Kolbe had exchanged his life for that of a Polish Jewish man." You can verify this quote here.

        The Jewish-sponsored organization S9.com, which specializes in biographies, says this under the entry Gajowniczek, Franciszek: "Polish Jewish farmer, soldier, and Holocaust survivor saved from being killed by Nazis at Auschwitz when Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to die in his place." You can check it here.

        The website Christian Friends of Israel also confirms the Jewish origin of the beneficiary of Fr. Kolbe's act of mercy. These are its words: "One of the ten selected to die was a Jewish man named Franciszek Gajowniczek, who began to cry out: 'My wife! My children! I will never see them again!' It was at this moment that Maximilian stepped forward as a true friend. He said: '...let me take his place.'" You can read this text here.

        Jewish journalist David Alton affirms: "Franciszek Gajowniczek, the Jewish prisoner whose life was purchased by Maximilian Kolbe, survived the camps." You may find this affirmation here by scrolling down the page to the first paragraph under the sub-title Paying the Price.

        In one of his homilies, Fr. Phil Bloom of Seattle speaks about the sacrifice of Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, saying: "One of the men selected was a farmer named Franciszek Gajowniczek. He was in Auschwitz only because he was Jew." This statement can be verified here.

        Author Rafael Perez Piñero writes on page 14 of his book What Love Has Merited for Us, (Nos Mereci el Amor): "This is what motivated ... Maximilian Kolbe to give his life for a Jewish father of a family named Franciszek Gajowniczek, who died on March 14, 1995." You can read the Spanish text here.

        The Spanish website Radio-Aficcionados (under the responsibility of José Miguel Orueta y Michelena) chose Maximilian Kolbe as its Patron. In the biography it presents of this holy religious and Founder of the Militia Immaculata, it reports:

        "The Germans randomly chose various prisoners to be executed; among them was a Jew, a sergeant of the Polish Army called Franciszek Gajowiniczek who had a wife and children. When he was selected, he exclaimed: 'My poor children!' Hearing this, Maximiliano Maria Kolbe Dabrowska offered to die in his place.' You can find this text in Spanish here.

    I hope these data sufficiently confirm what I affirmed in my article - that Fr. Kolbe gave his live for a Jew - which was common knowledge until some years ago.

         Cordially,

         Atila S. Guimarães

And once again, Atila is wrong on something; once again, people repeating a falsehood enough doesn't make it true.

The man himself:

In a testimony during the beatification process of Father Kolbe, Gajowniczek wrote: "I was raised in the atmosphere of the Catholic religion, I kept my faith in the most difficult moments, religion was the only lever and hope for me at that time. The sacrifice of Father Maksymilian Kolbe increased my religiousness and attachment to the Church. the Catholic who gives birth to such heroes. The only gratitude I can repay to my savior is the daily prayer I offer with my wife. "

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20130313223605%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Ffranciszkanie.pl%2Fnews.php%3Fid%3D6185

Polish original: https://web.archive.org/web/20130313223605/http://franciszkanie.pl/news.php?id=6185

Also, think about this: A Polish Jew named Francis born in the early 1900's? Really? lol.

[mikemac]

Yep.

"Franciszek Gajowniczek, Roman Catholic,[2] was born in Strachomin near Mi?sk Mazowiecki."

Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franciszek_Gajowniczek


Also this does not prove that Franciszek Gajowniczek was a Catholic, but it gives an idea of the character of Father Kolbe.

Franciszek Gajowniczek Dead; Priest Died for Him at Auschwitz
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/15/obituaries/franciszek-gajowniczek-dead-priest-died-for-him-at-auschwitz.html

...
Father Kolbe was beatified in 1971 and in 1982, Pope John Paul II proclaimed Father Kolbe a saint of the Roman Catholic Church.

When the church decided to canonize Father Kolbe, the specter of anti-Semitism in his past arose. He was the creator of a major religious publishing concern, and excerpts from its publications indicated open disapproval of what he considered an excessive presence of Jews in Polish economic life. He also spoke out against Freemasons and Communists, movements he also associated with Jews.

The church defended the friar, who was imprisoned in a roundup of Polish intellectuals, as reflecting some bias that was characteristic of the country and the times.
...

[Xavier]

"What then is distinctive of [Mary's] maternal mediation is the sanctification or purification of the Church and her members; whereas the quasi-infinite worth of the Church and her members since macula, sine ruga [without spot or wrinkle] (Eph 5:27), such that the Father sees in his adoptive children what he has always beheld in his only-begotten Son, stems from the infinite character of the atoning sacrifice of Christ. But that quasi-infinite worth is mediated by His Mother, and without her mediation no one can appear in the Father's sight as his son.[17]

God sees all the love of creation in the Immaculate.[18] Hence, the more we belong to Mary, the more our "reaction" of love is purified and enfolded into her "reaction," which is made in the name of all creation. This is, in effect, the essence of living out total consecration to Our Lady. "The soul offers to the Immaculata its acts of love, not as an object delivered to any mediator, but in property, in full and exclusive property because it understands that the Immaculata offers such acts to Jesus as though they were hers."

[The Knight of the Immaculata] knows that, in him and through him, she will love Jesus in a way incomparably more perfect than he himself might strive to do with any other means.

He knows that, just as any grace from God the Father through Jesus and the Immaculata descends into his soul, so by no other way is any response to such grace, any exchange of love for love, able to and allowed to rise up to the Father, except through her and Jesus.

He knows that that is the only way to achieve the easiest and most sublime holiness, to render the greatest possible glory to God.

The love of God, therefore, does not allow him to miss this opportunity, but urges him to win his own heart every day more over to the Immaculata.[19]

By making use of an analogy, through his use of a Newtonian principle, which ingeniously brings the world of empirical science into contact with theology, St. Maximilian ably presented a truth not easy to grasp, much less to fully live out, yet one which is "so necessary for practical life, for the conversion and sanctification of souls."[20] Upon the acceptance of Marian mediation at the heart or summit of this dynamic of love, he was convinced, depends the renewal of religious and Catholic life, as well as the renewal of society at large.[21] The entire program of the movement he founded, the Militia of the Immaculate, is fueled by this exigency:

We must constantly strengthen the love for the Immaculata in souls, tighten the bond of love that exists between her and souls, so that they may become one with her—become her herself; so that She herself may live and love (act) in them and through them. Just as she is of Jesus and of God, so each soul will become of Jesus and of God through her and in her, in a much more perfect way than either without her or not through her, if that were even possible.

Then souls will love the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus as they have never loved Him before, because, like her, and in ways they have never experienced before, they will plunge into the mysteries of Love: the Cross and the Eucharist. Through her, God's Love shall kindle the world, set it on fire, and lead to the "assumption" of souls through Love.[22]

The ultimate phrase of the above citation, mystical in import—and there are many such phrases in Kolbe's writings—brings to mind once again the image of Our Lady as the palace within which we must seek our Savior King. Evidently, the reflections of St. Maximilian are not merely the fruit of formal studies. Rather, it is clear that he himself had first entered the palace to ponder the treasures therein, only then to shed another ray of mystical light on their captivating luster.

"All the saints are theologians, and only the saints are theologians."[23] There is a certain primacy of what St. Bonaventure referred to as contemplative theology: a knowledge of God which is not gained by the application of human reason through study, but rather is an infused or mystical knowledge encompassed within the love of God as the supreme Good.[24] The science of the saints helps us not only to know the Truth better, but to live it and to love it as we are called to do. They exhort us to behold the Mediatrix of Divine Love, permitting her to transform our "reaction" of love into hers—an assumption of our souls through Love."

From: https://saintmaximiliankolbe.com/the-immaculate-mediatrix-of-divine-love/

[Markus]

Insufferable Jews on this forum

[GloriaPatri]

Insufferable Jews on this forum

???