Bishop Sanborn discusses the Una-Cum Mass

[awkward customer]

The majority of Trads acknowledge a false Pope.  This is true.  Bishop Sanborn takes the Sede position to the conclusion that a Traditional Mass said in union with a false Pope is valid but illicit, like the Masses of the Orthodox.

But Trads who acknowledge a false Pope are not in the same position as the Orthodox.  Because Trads acknowledge the authority of the Papacy whereas the Orthodox don't.  Trads who acknowledge a false Pope are mistaken, that's all, and being wrong isn't a sin.  Besides, most Trads are already going to great lengths to hold onto the Catholic Faith and want to be able to go to Mass and care for their families.

My instinct is that God smiles kindly on all those who are determined to keep the Faith in these unprecedented times.

As for the lack of a Sede presence in Trad land.  The SSPX has cornered the market and, let's face it, it's a small market.   Arguments amongst a tiny bunch of Trads are irrelevant to the Conciliar Church of the Revolt which is busy conspiring with the Globalists to usher in the reign of the Antichrist.

Francis has just met Bill Clinton and the son of Soros in the Vatican.  But I'm sure God won't mind too much if Trads continue to offer their Masses in union with him.

[Baylee]

http://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2023/03/undeclared-heretics.html

Unfortunately, who in the Conciliar Church (who supposedly has legitimate authority) is going to declare Francis a heretic? Burke? Did he ever write that "formal correction"? 

 

[Greg]

The SSPX has 'cornered the market' because it landed and expanded.

SVs had every opportunity to grow and convince Catholics they were right.  And with Bergoglio in charge they should have be able to sell that message.  That apostate should be the best salesman for SVs worldwide.

Heck, it is not like JP2 or B16 behaved like proper Catholic Popes at any point.  The SVs have had it all their way.

Where is there an SV church I can go to mass in Great Britain today?

[Baylee]

The SSPX has 'cornered the market' because it landed and expanded.

SVs had every opportunity to grow and convince Catholics they were right.  And with Bergoglio in charge they should have be able to sell that message.  That apostate should be the best salesman for SVs worldwide.

Heck, it is not like JP2 or B16 behaved like proper Catholic Popes at any point.  The SVs have had it all their way.

Where is there an SV church I can go to mass in Great Britain today?

Well, the SSPX also chooses to stay in good graces with the Conciliar Church.   SV's don't.  Neither does The Resistance (who are also very small and not SV). 

As for SV chapels in Britian, there are at least a couple...I think Bishop Sanborn's group has one and the CMRI has one.  It may not be within an hour of your location, but they are in Britain.  I'm also fairly certain that the number of SV's have increased during the recent claimant's pontificate as well the number of seminarians and priests in SV circles.  There is also an increasing number of Novus Ordo priests who have chosen to leave and join their seminaries to be ordained in the old rite by a bishop consecrated in the old rite. 

Why haven't you found the SV position correct? 

[Greg]

Once a month in Ely, Cambridgeshire?

Within a 1.5 hour one-way drive the three neighbouring counties of Cambridgeshire, Norfolk and Suffolk have a total population of 2.5 million people.  So SVs can provide mass once per month to 4% of the Traditional Catholics in the UK.

[Greg]

Why haven't you found the SV position correct?

Because it solves nothing.

Ultimately I need to be able to convince my children that Catholicism, properly lived out, is a viable and practical option to have a stable life and save one's soul.  SVism does nothing in this regard.

I don't think any of the positions are correct.  They are lifeboats, and depending which one your in and whether it assists you in keeping the faith you might be wise or less wise to spend some time in it.

This is exactly why I am a Kung Fu Catholic and wonder between Diocesan TLMs, Latin Mass Society and SSPX.  Because I judge a tree by the fruits and find this the best way to stay sane and keep my children sane and optimistic.

[awkward customer]

I removed what I posted here because it only repeated points already made above which I didn't notice at first.

And it's not as if arguments over which Mass to attend are going to make the slightest difference to the present situation.

When we're in the catacombs, will Trads will still be arguing about these issues?  Probably.

PS.  The 'like' below was for the previous, deleted post.

[Baylee]

Once a month in Ely, Cambridgeshire?

Within a 1.5 hour one-way drive the three neighbouring counties of Cambridgeshire, Norfolk and Suffolk have a total population of 2.5 million people.  So SVs can provide mass once per month to 4% of the Traditional Catholics in the UK.

It's my understanding that they are looking to get a priest there more regularly now that there are more priests getting ordained. 

As for monthly mass, I'm lucky if I get to mass once per month. And I travel much longer than 1.5 hours. 

But, in the end, expanding takes time (and unfortunately, money).  And yes, the SV's are expanding.  Maybe not at the rate you'd like to see it, but they are.

[awkward customer]

This is exactly why I am a Kung Fu Catholic and wonder between Diocesan TLMs, Latin Mass Society and SSPX. 

Carry on then.

[Baylee]

This is exactly why I am a Kung Fu Catholic and wonder between Diocesan TLMs, Latin Mass Society and SSPX. 

Carry on then.

Why haven't you found the SV position correct?

Because it solves nothing.

Ultimately I need to be able to convince my children that Catholicism, properly lived out, is a viable and practical option to have a stable life and save one's soul.  SVism does nothing in this regard.

I don't think any of the positions are correct.  They are lifeboats, and depending which one your in and whether it assists you in keeping the faith you might be wise or less wise to spend some time in it.

This is exactly why I am a Kung Fu Catholic and wonder between Diocesan TLMs, Latin Mass Society and SSPX.  Because I judge a tree by the fruits and find this the best way to stay sane and keep my children sane and optimistic.

Yes, we all need to decide what is best for our families. 

[Jean Carrier]

Actually, Greg makes a good point. The sede bishops can argue like cats and dogs over the thuc line and una cum and whatever issue of the day (almost always one which, on a practical level, seems calculated to ensure Catholics are only dropping money in the collection plate at their mass), but they can't get their arses in gear and elect a Pope? I don't buy it. If a Joe schmoe in Kansas was able to make the attempt then surely Sanborn and Co. can.

A papal election would do infinitely more for sedevacantism than writing papers ad infinitum about the new mass or lefebvre or what have you. Especially since the reason non-sedes stay in union with Francis is that they don't see any alternative claimants or hierarchy with jurisdiction.

[Baylee]

Actually, Greg makes a good point. The sede bishops can argue like cats and dogs over the thuc line and una cum and whatever issue of the day (almost always one which, on a practical level, seems calculated to ensure Catholics are only dropping money in the collection plate at their mass), but they can't get their arses in gear and elect a Pope? I don't buy it. If a Joe schmoe in Kansas was able to make the attempt then surely Sanborn and Co. can.

A papal election would do infinitely more for sedevacantism than writing papers ad infinitum about the new mass or lefebvre or what have you. Especially since the reason non-sedes stay in union with Francis is that they don't see any alternative claimants or hierarchy with jurisdiction.

Yes, I hear that.  However, I'd much rather see all of the traditional bishops elect a pope.  Of course, that means that they too have to believe the Seat is vacant.  Maybe when Francis finally dies.

[Jean Carrier]

True, though the number of sede bishops greatly outnumber the non-sede bishops. There's like, what, 4 sspx bishops and a few resistance bishops world wide?

[Baylee]

True, though the number of sede bishops greatly outnumber the non-sede bishops. There's like, what, 4 sspx bishops and a few resistance bishops world wide?

It's not about numbers.  It's about unity among the true Catholic bishops.  Perhaps someone like Vigano could get conditionally consecrated and join in as well.

[Jean Carrier]

It's a catch 22. Unity can only be brought about among the true Catholic bishops by the presence of a true Catholic Pope. And such a Pope would, it seems, have to come about through unity prevailing among the true Catholic bishops.

We could always skip the bishops entirely if the remaining faithful in Rome could be contacted, though. IIRC the prerogative of electing the Pope devolves upon the faithful of the Roman Church (even lay faithful) prior to devolving upon the body of bishops.