What is the matter for Baptism?

[LausTibiChriste]

I've heard Fr. Ripperger mention that theologians have argued over this, but he used it as a support for another point he was making so he didn't dive into it.

I know it's easy to say "water" but how do we define that? Corona is 90% water, would that work in an emergency?

What about spit or other bodily fluids? Not to get too crass but pee is basically just (really shitty) mineral water. What about sparkling water? Water from a road puddle? Waste water from a nuclear power plant? Wine? Beer?

Matter is an important aspect of the sacraments, obviously, so has the Church said anything on this?

[Kaesekopf]

From Jone-Adelman's "Moral Theology" text:

Chapter I
THE OUTWARD SIGN OF BAPTISM
I. The Matter. 1. The remote valid matter for Baptism is natural water (C. 737).
In judging what is "water" we do not have recourse to chemical analysis, but rather to the estimation of ordinary people.
a) Certainly valid matter: rain and sea water; spring, well and drain water; water from melted ice, snow or hail; mineral and sulphur water; dew and water from sweating walls and recondensed steam; distilled water if by distillation only foreign matter is removed; muddy water or water mixed with any other substance as long as the water certainly predominates by far.
b) Certainly invalid matter: milk, blood, amniotic liquid, tears, saliva, foam, fruit juices, wine, beer, oil, thick broth, ink.
c) Doubtful matter is thin soup, weak beer, coffee, tea, water from dissolved salt, sap from vines and other plants, rose water and similar liquids extracted from vegetative matter.

[LausTibiChriste]

From Jone-Adelman's "Moral Theology" text:

Chapter I
THE OUTWARD SIGN OF BAPTISM
I. The Matter. 1. The remote valid matter for Baptism is natural water (C. 737).
In judging what is "water" we do not have recourse to chemical analysis, but rather to the estimation of ordinary people.
a) Certainly valid matter: rain and sea water; spring, well and drain water; water from melted ice, snow or hail; mineral and sulphur water; dew and water from sweating walls and recondensed steam; distilled water if by distillation only foreign matter is removed; muddy water or water mixed with any other substance as long as the water certainly predominates by far.
b) Certainly invalid matter: milk, blood, amniotic liquid, tears, saliva, foam, fruit juices, wine, beer, oil, thick broth, ink.
c) Doubtful matter is thin soup, weak beer, coffee, tea, water from dissolved salt, sap from vines and other plants, rose water and similar liquids extracted from vegetative matter.

Thank you Sir..I left my Ott in storage.

But that still doesn't really answer the question. What's his criteria to determine if one is valid, invalid or doubtful?

[Michael Wilson]

Its has to be "leavened!!!! Oh wait, that's on another thread, never mind!

[LausTibiChriste]

Its has to be "leavened!!!! Oh wait, that's on another thread, never mind!

I lol'd 

[Bonaventure]

Its has to be "leavened!!!! Oh wait, that's on another thread, never mind!

Wassamata U

[Michael Wilson]

I would guess that the criteria would be, it has to be something that is still specifically identified as H2O; therefore, something like sea-water would be O.K., But "Corona" that is beer (as light as it is) cannot be adequate. Therefore also the other examples you gave. With the exception of water from a puddle as long as it was muddy water and not watery mud; the same for water from a nuclear reactor.

[Kaesekopf]

But that still doesn't really answer the question. What's his criteria to determine if one is valid, invalid or doubtful?

I don't think there's a certain percentage or chemical make-up for it - just a "sensible" assessment of the water.  If I am understanding your question properly. 

[LausTibiChriste]

But that still doesn't really answer the question. What's his criteria to determine if one is valid, invalid or doubtful?

I don't think there's a certain percentage or chemical make-up for it - just a "sensible" assessment of the water.  If I am understanding your question properly. 

That's not very Thomistic of you

[Melkor]

I remember reading in cases of extreme emergency you can use coffee, tea etc. But if the child/person survives, you have to re baptise them with actual water.

[JJoseph]

I remember reading in cases of extreme emergency you can use coffee, tea etc. But if the child/person survives, you have to re baptise them with actual water.

It's hard to imagine such an emergency. Water is far more widely available than coffee and tea, and virtually ubiquitous, and I think God designed it that way, and that's part of the reason He chose it as the matter for the Sacrament. Anyway, carry on.

[Melkite]

But "Corona" that is beer (as light as it is) cannot be adequate.

So you're saying Bud, Miller and Coors are adequate, then?

[Michael Wilson]

But "Corona" that is beer (as light as it is) cannot be adequate.

So you're saying Bud, Miller and Coors are adequate, then?

Coors Lite definitely; I challenge anyone to taste even a hint of beer in that product. The company is making millions selling water with the label of beer on it.