"Trad lifestyle" and hypocrisy

[Magnificat]

Yes, it is.

However, no one's promising a life without hard work, sacrifice, blood, sweat and tears, so I don't think it's an issue here.

[CoolCat]

I like your post Bonaventure.
If St. Paul were alive today, he would use the Internet as a tool to evangelize.
It sounds corny. But the same applies to all the Saints who heralded the Good News to the world.
Priests, even traditional ones use the internet to communicate their message to the faithful.
And they do have an idea that the internet is based on computers. Many of chich need air conditioning units in order to function properly.
Can a human live, pray and offer his family unto God under these modern living gadgets? I think so.

My assesment is anything that is used as a tool to help us please the Lord, is fine.

If we had an bug infestation, would not we use fumigation spray?
Many times the elements are a distraction at the time of prayer.

[Magnificat]

I'm not offended. As I said, your descriptions both of farming and of the corporate world simply stike me as highly romantic. That is based on my own experience of both, which granted may be different from yours. But then, I'm not claiming that one is more consistent with Catholicism than the other.

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature.

There's nothing romantic about it, it's simply true. When I have more time I will link to sources that are not religious in nature.

[LouisIX]

As a note/clarifier, I am not talking about avoiding sinful occasions and whatnot.  It is evident that air conditioning and indoor plumbing is not a sinful thing. 

My concern is more of what Magnificat is getting at (thank you!). 

Is it more "right" or "proper" for trads to seek a lifestyle more "in tune" with nature?  Living off the land, farming, etc.  If that is the case, then, wouldn't it be more "proper" for trads to eschew modern "conveniences" like air conditioning, ice boxes, and modern transportation?  As was mentioned on another topic (but not particularly concerning my questions), man wasn't "made" to naturally exceed certain speed limits.  Man wasn't made to be sheltered from oppressive heat or frigid cold.  Man wasn't made to be out of tune with the seasons and his natural surroundings. 

So, with those things in mind, what do you think? 

On a superficial level, I find it interesting that certain modern things seem to be played down (city life, office work, etc), yet some of the fruits of modern things are ignored and taken for granted.

Modern conveniences are not usually individually sinful, however the modern lifestyle which utilizes every convenience (because maximizing comfort or pleasure as a primary end in life) IS sinful.


This is why things are tricky.  We need to live in the world while rejecting it.  That doesn't mean just rejecting this or that, it means living with a certain disposition or attitude.  Living a more simple life (the perimeters that you outlined above are quite simple to how a monastic lives and aren't families to make monasteries of their homes?) is how one cultivates that disposition in a world which buzzes with far too much noise and debauchery.


Does this mean that you have to grow your own corn and raise chickens?  No.  Does it mean that one can totally immerse themselves in every new advancement and technological gizmo?  That's not acceptable either.  Every trad family must look at their strengths and weaknesses and tailor their lives to cultivate a holy disposition.  In a world like this one (totally fallen, and totally rejecting Christianity), living a completely "modern life" is at least an occasion of sin.  And this shouldn't come as a surprise.  Catholics have always been set apart in their lifestyle and the Scriptures tell us that if we love and follow Jesus Christ the world will hate us.

[Spooky]

I was watching a video, and a thought struck me.

All the time, we as trads hear (whether rightly or wrongly) that trads need to do "old-fashioned" jobs and live "old-fashioned" ways.  We're told to 'return to the land', to be farmers, woodworkers, glass-blowers, bookbinders.  That a trade is the best route for a good trad man to take.

Well, in all of this discussion, are we to give up "luxuries" like air conditioning, modern travel modes (for this discussion, consider say a bike over driving), and other modern conveniences? 

It seems like a short-sighted, half-worked idea to shun the things we don't like, yet keep the things we do. 

What do you all think?

The whole "make your own nails" thing. Yeah, I think it's stupid.

[Spooky]

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature

well, no it's not. Being  farmer is no closer to fulfilling human nature than being a blacksmith or an engineer.

[LouisIX]

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature

well, no it's not. Being  farmer is no closer to fulfilling human nature than being a blacksmith or an engineer.

The question is whether being a farmer, blacksmith, or engineer is closer to fulfilling human nature than developing game apps for an iPhone, for instance.


I think the answer to that is yes.

[Spooky]

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature

well, no it's not. Being  farmer is no closer to fulfilling human nature than being a blacksmith or an engineer.

The question is whether being a farmer, blacksmith, or engineer is closer to fulfilling human nature than developing game apps for an iPhone, for instance.


I think the answer to that is yes.

I don't. Recreation is legitimate, someone creating recreation for others is just as valid as any other job.

[Mithrandylan]

Yeah, what about someone who, say, breeds horses?  Then horses are then used for racing.  Or someone who builds horsehoe pits?  Or someone who makes baseball bats out of wood?  Or even someone who makes clothing for certain (recreational) activities?  I don't see a difference in principle.

[LouisIX]

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature

well, no it's not. Being  farmer is no closer to fulfilling human nature than being a blacksmith or an engineer.

The question is whether being a farmer, blacksmith, or engineer is closer to fulfilling human nature than developing game apps for an iPhone, for instance.


I think the answer to that is yes.

I don't. Recreation is legitimate, someone creating recreation for others is just as valid as any other job.

All recreation is not created equal, however.

[OCLittleFlower]

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature

well, no it's not. Being  farmer is no closer to fulfilling human nature than being a blacksmith or an engineer.

The question is whether being a farmer, blacksmith, or engineer is closer to fulfilling human nature than developing game apps for an iPhone, for instance.


I think the answer to that is yes.

I'm not sure if that's true either.  In the digital age, things are less tangible, yes, but that doesn't mean that there's any difference between say, developing a video game and designing a new board game for Hasbro.

[LouisIX]

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature

well, no it's not. Being  farmer is no closer to fulfilling human nature than being a blacksmith or an engineer.

The question is whether being a farmer, blacksmith, or engineer is closer to fulfilling human nature than developing game apps for an iPhone, for instance.


I think the answer to that is yes.

I'm not sure if that's true either.  In the digital age, things are less tangible, yes, but that doesn't mean that there's any difference between say, developing a video game and designing a new board game for Hasbro.

Perhaps.  But still, the discussion is one who makes games vs a farmer.

[Ancilla Domini]

I'm not offended. As I said, your descriptions both of farming and of the corporate world simply stike me as highly romantic. That is based on my own experience of both, which granted may be different from yours. But then, I'm not claiming that one is more consistent with Catholicism than the other.

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature.

There's nothing romantic about it, it's simply true.

You have yet to demonstrate any of this.

When I have more time I will link to sources that are not religious in nature.

If your sources are not Catholic, and if indeed your point does not pertain to Traditional Catholicism, then I fail to see its relevance to the question at hand?

[OCLittleFlower]

Neither did I. What I said is that there are jobs that are more fulfilling to human nature than others and this bears serious consideration because grace builds on nature

well, no it's not. Being  farmer is no closer to fulfilling human nature than being a blacksmith or an engineer.

The question is whether being a farmer, blacksmith, or engineer is closer to fulfilling human nature than developing game apps for an iPhone, for instance.


I think the answer to that is yes.

I'm not sure if that's true either.  In the digital age, things are less tangible, yes, but that doesn't mean that there's any difference between say, developing a video game and designing a new board game for Hasbro.

Perhaps.  But still, the discussion is one who makes games vs a farmer.

The Church has never, at least to my knowlege, spoken out against those who build their careers around art or entertainment.  In a specialized society, some people will do this.  The more efficient we are about farming, the more people are "freed up" to do something besides grow food.

[Quo Vadis]

(Notice: No Catholic content)

I think that if we are visited by aliens, they will be so highly specialized that we will think they are quite stupid, and they will not be able to hold their own in a conversation with us.

"My job is to push this button"
"That's all?"
"I have memorized 30,000,000 permutations, and when I should push the button or not push the button."
"Uh, very interesting....Hey that's kinda like my kids on their cellphones!"

By analogy, our ancient ancestors may think similarly of us.