When Violence is Permissible?

Started by Heinrich, October 10, 2021, 01:44:26 PM

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Kathleen

#30
October 12, 2021, 10:22:24 PM
The husband MUST provide protection of his wife and family

PER SAINT PAUL

This is not optional.

This is not debatable.

The Duties of Married People

IMPRIMATUR: Patrick J. Hayes, D.D. 1921

If you will not take that DUTY you do NOT get a wife.

Period.

GiftOfGod

#31
October 13, 2021, 01:16:40 AM
Quote from: james03 on October 12, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
QuoteIf someone attacks by striking you on the cheek, should you follow what Jesus commanded, or should you defend yourself and strike back ?

Why ignore my question?  If your daughter is being raped, do you use the baseball bat, or do you tell her to turn the other cheek?
Depends. If there's a gun to your head or knife to your throat, would it be doing your daughter any favors to have a dead father in addition to being raped?
Quote from: Maximilian on December 30, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: Goldfinch on December 30, 2021, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on December 30, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists. Period.
Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.
We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?
We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation? Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.

MaximGun

#32
October 13, 2021, 02:33:37 AM Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 02:37:40 AM by MaximGun
GiftofGod you really are a gutless coward with no belief in God and no faith in God's providence. Worse than a physical coward, you are a moral coward.

I would fight and if killed trust in God to help my daughter.  The same God who notices every sparrow that falls from the sky.

You are never in control anyway.  You could die suddenly of all sorts of things.

A man who doesn't rage with righteous anger in such circumstances is worthless.  Cowardice like this allows the world to be ruled by tyrants.

Only a few thousand brave Australian men coming together would be needed in each city to give the police tyranny there a good beating.  Rip of their riot gear and beat them.  The scum politicians would soon change their tune.

MaximGun

#33
October 13, 2021, 05:48:39 AM
Got to love this kid.  He knows when violence is acceptable.  When a meth head has stolen your stuff and is escaping with it.

GiftOfGod

#34
October 13, 2021, 10:15:38 PM
Quote from: MaximGun on October 13, 2021, 02:33:37 AM
GiftofGod you really are a gutless coward with no belief in God and no faith in God's providence.
It's easy to say that anonymously behind a screen name. You wouldn't say it in person (for obvious reasons).
Quote from: Maximilian on December 30, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: Goldfinch on December 30, 2021, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on December 30, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists. Period.
Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.
We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?
We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation? Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.

MaximGun

#35
October 14, 2021, 12:08:42 AM
I would because you are a coward.  PM me and I will call you,

GiftOfGod

#36
October 14, 2021, 12:56:05 AM
Quote from: MaximGun on October 14, 2021, 12:08:42 AM
I would because you are a coward.  PM me and I will call you,
What happened to putting me on "ignore"?
Quote from: Maximilian on December 30, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: Goldfinch on December 30, 2021, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on December 30, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists. Period.
Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.
We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?
We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation? Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.

MaximGun

#37
October 14, 2021, 01:14:46 AM
Factum est

But I will send you my name and address if you want a fight.

Philip G.

#38
October 15, 2021, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: MaximGun on October 14, 2021, 01:14:46 AM
Factum est

But I will send you my name and address if you want a fight.

Quit it. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

LausTibiChriste

#39
October 15, 2021, 12:18:58 PM
Quote from: Philip G. on October 15, 2021, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: MaximGun on October 14, 2021, 01:14:46 AM
Factum est

But I will send you my name and address if you want a fight.

Quit it.

Sounds like you already did
Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God, Have Mercy On Me A Sinner

"Nobody is under any moral obligation of duty or loyalty to a state run by sexual perverts who are trying to destroy public morals."
- MaximGun

"Not trusting your government doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist, it means you're a history buff"

Communism is as American as Apple Pie

Philip G.

#40
October 15, 2021, 12:46:06 PM Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 12:48:54 PM by Philip G.
Jesus said, when you are dragged before princes and magistrates, do not meditate on what you will say, for the Holy Ghost will assist you in what to say.  This is relevant to what we are discussing, because some responses in this thread describe its polar opposite.  But, instead of lawful authority, we are dealing with usurpers of authority.  However, how do you balance these two opposite scenarios?  And, if there is no such thing as balancing them, what side do we err on, and what does that entail? 

It seems to me that the apeing/opposite of the gospel advice and scenario is to not only actively seek out the violent means, but to also prepare/meditate before hand that end.  And, that my friends constitutes what we know as "willful murder".  And, that is off limits.  It is one of the four sins that cries to heaven for vengeance.

So, we definitely have to err on the side of diplomacy and a plain/strict understanding of self defense, keeping channels of communication open.  However, in this case, I believe we would have to do the limited opposite of the scriptural scenario, being that the context is different. And, that means we will have to meditate what we say, and be prepared for arms, but waiting for God's signal, which in this case I would interpret to mean the enemy firing the first shot.  Does that make sense?  Exhaust diplomacy, and if that doesn't work out, then we can fight.  In a sense, we must be counter punchers.  With that said, stop getting yourselves riled up about the worries of tomorrow, if it ever comes.  "The evils of the day are sufficient." 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Philip G.

#41
October 16, 2021, 01:49:29 AM Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 01:53:07 AM by Philip G.
I did not set out looking for anything like this to post on here, I just stumbled across it, it looked interesting, and I thought of this thread after.  Again, the moral of this is that violent means should always be a last resort.  We remain prepared for such, but something we never wish to have to exercise. 

For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

MaximGun

#42
October 16, 2021, 06:27:00 AM
Last resort can also be an excuse for dithering and letting your enemy get the advantage.

Heinrich

#43
October 16, 2021, 06:45:05 AM
Quote from: MaximGun on October 16, 2021, 06:27:00 AM
Last resort can also be an excuse for dithering and letting your enemy get the advantage.

That is why we pray for Prudence.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

LausTibiChriste

#44
October 16, 2021, 07:13:11 AM
Quote from: Philip G. on October 16, 2021, 01:49:29 AM
I did not set out looking for anything like this to post on here, I just stumbled across it, it looked interesting, and I thought of this thread after.  Again, the moral of this is that violent means should always be a last resort.  We remain prepared for such, but something we never wish to have to exercise. 



I love Jocko
Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God, Have Mercy On Me A Sinner

"Nobody is under any moral obligation of duty or loyalty to a state run by sexual perverts who are trying to destroy public morals."
- MaximGun

"Not trusting your government doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist, it means you're a history buff"

Communism is as American as Apple Pie
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