Why value love over dominance?

[Ragnarok]

After digging deep into the abyss of myself, I came to a horrible realization - all of my spiritual praxis, prayer, mediation, liturgy, etc. for my whole life has been for the glorification of myself. That is, I really detested being "me". I still do. I have no real pragmatic utility except for being tall and above average intelligence (which is meh compared to the geniuses today). Never good at sports, uncoordinated, ugly-ish, and some level of neuro-atypicality (I'm not autistic or anything, but I never felt "normal" - I never really felt satisfied from the pleasures of life; they grew old really quickly; I never really cared about pleasing anybody socially, never really cared about petty social hierarchy dominance rituals, never really had a friend group or relationships, never really cared about any of this; and I always needed, at least once a week, alone time in my room).

In reality though, a lot of this stems from just feeling socially inferior and not wanting to bother. Because I am. I am socially inferior.

So religion was the perfect way to escape from all of this and find some way I could raise myself above others. By being morally virtuous, by being ascetic, by having discipline and restraining from the pleasures of life, I could ascend and become higher than all. As a parallel, I could become a Saint and laugh condescendingly at people below me.

But the truth is, despite wearing the moniker of "Catholic", "Orthodox",  "Christian", I never showed any "love" or compassion to anyone who I felt didn't deserve it, and if I did, it was all motivated by pleasing God or others. Nor do I see any pragmatic value in it aside from me being selfishly motivated.


All real forms of love seem to be biconditional. A tit for tat. A mother loves her son because of biological biases and the pleasure from seeing her son love her back. Your friends only value you because they feel like you bring some value to them, and vice-versa. Your boss gives you a raise because you either performed great work or society obligated him too. Your lover loves you because of lustful satisfaction. Etc.

And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?

I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally. I always have to provide value to them for them to even care. Why should I take a step forward and show them unconditional love?

And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!

I mean dang it, even reading the Bible shows nothing but petty dominance disputes. Who should be the King of Israel based on his countenance? Whether a Galilean could be the Messiah, and really, ultimately, "God has dominance over all, so if you don't submit yourself, He will exercise dominance over you and burn you forever"


It just seems like life is survival of the fittest, and if you aren't fit, die off.

So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?

[Ragnarok]

Maybe in our contemporary society, I'm just not seeing the full picture considering that almost all the traditional religions have lost their valuing of "strength" as a product of our "circus and breadcrumbs" culture - one only has to look at the Crusader monastic orders of the medieval period for valuing that compared to the Catholic Church in any capacity now, and I'm just at a loss that our society has lost this vital component of strength and power as an intrinsic good.

However, even so, I fundamentally don't get why we should order our strength and dominance as subordinate to selflessness and compassion, and not order selflessness and compassion to dominance.

[Fleur-de-Lys]

Why value love over dominance? Because dominance is the way of the world, whereas love and compassion are the way of Christ.

[Christe Eleison]

Why value love over dominance? Because dominance is the way of the world, whereas love and compassion are the way of Christ.

Dear FLEUR,
Thanks for this post!! Excellent reply!

I missed you around here! May God Bless you & your loved ones!!

[Melkor]

After digging deep into the abyss of myself, I came to a horrible realization - all of my spiritual praxis, prayer, mediation, liturgy, etc. for my whole life has been for the glorification of myself. That is, I really detested being "me". I still do. I have no real pragmatic utility except for being tall and above average intelligence (which is meh compared to the geniuses today). Never good at sports, uncoordinated, ugly-ish, and some level of neuro-atypicality (I'm not autistic or anything, but I never felt "normal" - I never really felt satisfied from the pleasures of life; they grew old really quickly; I never really cared about pleasing anybody socially, never really cared about petty social hierarchy dominance rituals, never really had a friend group or relationships, never really cared about any of this; and I always needed, at least once a week, alone time in my room).

In reality though, a lot of this stems from just feeling socially inferior and not wanting to bother. Because I am. I am socially inferior.

So religion was the perfect way to escape from all of this and find some way I could raise myself above others. By being morally virtuous, by being ascetic, by having discipline and restraining from the pleasures of life, I could ascend and become higher than all. As a parallel, I could become a Saint and laugh condescendingly at people below me.

But the truth is, despite wearing the moniker of "Catholic", "Orthodox",  "Christian", I never showed any "love" or compassion to anyone who I felt didn't deserve it, and if I did, it was all motivated by pleasing God or others. Nor do I see any pragmatic value in it aside from me being selfishly motivated.


All real forms of love seem to be biconditional. A tit for tat. A mother loves her son because of biological biases and the pleasure from seeing her son love her back. Your friends only value you because they feel like you bring some value to them, and vice-versa. Your boss gives you a raise because you either performed great work or society obligated him too. Your lover loves you because of lustful satisfaction. Etc.

And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?

I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally. I always have to provide value to them for them to even care. Why should I take a step forward and show them unconditional love?

And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!

I mean dang it, even reading the Bible shows nothing but petty dominance disputes. Who should be the King of Israel based on his countenance? Whether a Galilean could be the Messiah, and really, ultimately, "God has dominance over all, so if you don't submit yourself, He will exercise dominance over you and burn you forever"


It just seems like life is survival of the fittest, and if you aren't fit, die off.

So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?

Or... instead of feeling sorry for yourself you could go out and get some hobbies. I recommend getting outside and doing some fishing and/or hunting. Get some weights and lift them. Also, a good cigar and a whisky with friends around a campfire does wonders for a person. Video games, with moderation, can help you too.  When one is active there is little time for self-pity.

[Ragnarok]

After digging deep into the abyss of myself, I came to a horrible realization - all of my spiritual praxis, prayer, mediation, liturgy, etc. for my whole life has been for the glorification of myself. That is, I really detested being "me". I still do. I have no real pragmatic utility except for being tall and above average intelligence (which is meh compared to the geniuses today). Never good at sports, uncoordinated, ugly-ish, and some level of neuro-atypicality (I'm not autistic or anything, but I never felt "normal" - I never really felt satisfied from the pleasures of life; they grew old really quickly; I never really cared about pleasing anybody socially, never really cared about petty social hierarchy dominance rituals, never really had a friend group or relationships, never really cared about any of this; and I always needed, at least once a week, alone time in my room).

In reality though, a lot of this stems from just feeling socially inferior and not wanting to bother. Because I am. I am socially inferior.

So religion was the perfect way to escape from all of this and find some way I could raise myself above others. By being morally virtuous, by being ascetic, by having discipline and restraining from the pleasures of life, I could ascend and become higher than all. As a parallel, I could become a Saint and laugh condescendingly at people below me.

But the truth is, despite wearing the moniker of "Catholic", "Orthodox",  "Christian", I never showed any "love" or compassion to anyone who I felt didn't deserve it, and if I did, it was all motivated by pleasing God or others. Nor do I see any pragmatic value in it aside from me being selfishly motivated.


All real forms of love seem to be biconditional. A tit for tat. A mother loves her son because of biological biases and the pleasure from seeing her son love her back. Your friends only value you because they feel like you bring some value to them, and vice-versa. Your boss gives you a raise because you either performed great work or society obligated him too. Your lover loves you because of lustful satisfaction. Etc.

And really, even for those who claim to show unconditional love, so often the "I" is the center of it. "I" volunteered at the soup-kitchen because "I" wanted to feel good about it. "I" felt that God told me I should. How often will someone at a soup-kitchen hug a broken down poor family who never feels loved for no reason?

I really don't see why I should. Nobody has ever showed me love unconditionally. I always have to provide value to them for them to even care. Why should I take a step forward and show them unconditional love?

And really, what about the role of dominance in life? Even from teenage years, it seems innate for us to want to dominate others. We create social status hierarchies of dominance based on wealth, attractiveness, social extravertedness, etc., with a bunch of losers at the bottom who are neither pretty, wealthy, or extroverted. Even contemporary Western society today is built on such vanity; even politics. When we see political enemies that we hate, we raise ourselves above them and view them as lesser. Look at all those redneck incestuous GED hicks who won't get the Covid vaccine, who vote for Trump! Look at all those Leftist SJW pink hair dyed manchildren with their Sonic the Hedgehog toys!

I mean dang it, even reading the Bible shows nothing but petty dominance disputes. Who should be the King of Israel based on his countenance? Whether a Galilean could be the Messiah, and really, ultimately, "God has dominance over all, so if you don't submit yourself, He will exercise dominance over you and burn you forever"


It just seems like life is survival of the fittest, and if you aren't fit, die off.

So why not value dominance over unconditional compassion?

Or... instead of feeling sorry for yourself you could go out and get some hobbies. I recommend getting outside and doing some fishing and/or hunting. Get some weights and lift them. Also, a good cigar and a whisky with friends around a campfire does wonders for a person. Video games, with moderation, can help you too.  When one is active there is little time for self-pity.

I work out every single day and do Muay Thai. Very few value me like that to invite me out for a cigar and whisky; I've only been invited for that in undergraduate college campuses, and that was because of Catholicism, not because anyone genuinely valued me. Sort of the pat on the back "I love you because Jesus loves you" kind of thing.

Granted, a lot of my loneliness is a consequence of my own decisions, and I take responsibility, but a lot of those decisions came about as an immature teenager negatively lashing out to bullying and social isolation by my peers, who still by and large socially isolate me to this day.

Unfortunately, life is suffering - perhaps a foretaste of Hell - and two possible options when one realizes this (besides depression) are either to stop playing by the rules and take advantage of the system for your own benefit, or decry the system as the enemy and try to live a life for others through a religion or social work.

Besides Heaven, is there a tangible benefit for picking the latter?

[Vetus Ordo]

What exactly is the point of this question, Ragnarok?

You want to be the kind of person who exercises dominance over other people without any regard for their well-being while at the same time admitting that you're a social outcast without any possibility of becoming said person?

Becoming morally repugnant is not going to make anyone like you more.

[Ragnarok]

What exactly is the point of this question, Ragnarok?

You want to be the kind of person who exercises dominance over other people without any regard for their well-being while at the same time admitting that you're a social outcast without any possibility of becoming said person?

Becoming morally repugnant is not going to make anyone like you more.

If you go to the right places and meet the right people, you will find some people who live exactly like this yet live non-consequentially, who seem to have everything anyone could ever ask for and face no repercussions (at least in this life) for their actions. They have no problem crushing people like a toothpick that stand in their way and beating them down for their own ego after they've already snapped the toothpick.

Once you meet this kind of person in real life, it shatters your illusion of any Christian moral system being self-rewarding.


I have no desire to act like this in real life - it isn't me. I want to love and be loved, but it just seems like human beings are capable of being just carnivorous beasts that devour prey, and there's no repercussions other than the lion saying "mmm tasty"

I don't know, everything in my life is kind of falling apart right now subjectively speaking (it's been falling apart for like 3 years, Covid accentuated it) , and no matter what I do sticking to my guns, it's almost like I'm God's little plaything, or at least I perceive it as such.

I spent pretty much my entire college volunteering at my Church's soup kitchen on the weekends, and let me tell you - 80% of the people there are ungrateful leeches who took the free food repeatedly, some even trying to steal food. 20% need the help they can get and were grateful for me and that was rewarding for my own self-esteem, but most weren't - some even looked down on me like "what a loser".

So if being a "good caring person" who goes out of my way to bring joy to people has no reward for me (not even perceived spiritually, because if there's no psychological reward, I'm incapable of seeing the spiritual reward), it's like why not just be an egoistic POS? No matter how much effort I put into anything, even the uneducated broke thug looks down on me as inferior, so it's like why should I give a crap about what anyone thinks about me? Why not just live for me?

It's a question I am struggling to answer other than what comes after death - but Hell is pure loneliness and no love, and I feel pure loneliness and no love. So besides that justification, I don't know; I want some rational justificaition for it other than fearing Yahweh sends me to burn forever.



Right now, it's almost like God is permitting everything He can to try to steer me towards darkness, and I'm just a stubborn boulder against a rapid stream.

The only sensible conclusion is that I only exist because God permits me too, meaning that I don't really exist independent of God - so I should do God's Will and be benevolent not caring about me, because God can take my life at any moment. But the real question that I can't answer is this - is my existence rooted in God having dominance over me, or God loving me? Right now I'm so lost that I can't actually know which one's correct.


I perceive that God wants me to keep moving forward and there is, in fact, a plan for me if I hold steadfast, but right now, I'm being tempted like Christ in the desert by some of the most infernal demons (trust me, the demons are real, once you experience some of the worst of them, you don't forget it). I've been tempted in remarkable ways actually, you would be shocked at some of the things I told you.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

illusion of any Christian moral system being self-rewarding.

The idea that we get free stuff for being upright people is the Prosperity Gospel^TM.

And the Prosperity Gospel is not Catholic.

[Christe Eleison]

Dear Ragnorak,
Please be assured of my prayers!

It would also be helpful if you spent some time praying as well,
in front of the Blessed Sacrament! 
Just sit still, meditate on the Passion of Our Blessed Lord!
Do the Stations of the Cross!

Please stop trying to make sense of the mess we are in,
or else the evil one will win you over.
The evil one knows our weaknesses, so be on guard. Please PRAY!
If you do not spend time in prayer, no one can help you.
There is a reason that this is called the Valley of Tears! 

Get close to Our Blessed Mother, SHE LOVES YOU!!

And even if you are not "feeling it" PRAY the HOLY ROSARY daily!!

Please spend time reading the Bible a bit each day, read about the different Saints.
Go to Confession on a weekly basis or sooner if needed.
Go to daily Mass, it really helps!

Hang in there! And PRAY!!

[Ragnarok]

What exactly is the point of this question, Ragnarok?

You want to be the kind of person who exercises dominance over other people without any regard for their well-being while at the same time admitting that you're a social outcast without any possibility of becoming said person?

Becoming morally repugnant is not going to make anyone like you more.

If you go to the right places and meet the right people, you will find some people who live exactly like this yet live non-consequentially, who seem to have everything anyone could ever ask for and face no repercussions (at least in this life) for their actions. They have no problem crushing people like a toothpick that stand in their way and beating them down for their own ego after they've already snapped the toothpick.

Once you meet this kind of person in real life, it shatters your illusion of any Christian moral system being self-rewarding.


I have no desire to act like this in real life - it isn't me. I want to love and be loved, but it just seems like human beings are capable of being just carnivorous beasts that devour prey, and there's no repercussions other than the lion saying "mmm tasty"

I don't know, everything in my life is kind of falling apart right now subjectively speaking (it's been falling apart for like 3 years, Covid accentuated it) , and no matter what I do sticking to my guns, it's almost like I'm God's little plaything, or at least I perceive it as such.

I spent pretty much my entire college volunteering at my Church's soup kitchen on the weekends, and let me tell you - 80% of the people there are ungrateful leeches who took the free food repeatedly, some even trying to steal food. 20% need the help they can get and were grateful for me and that was rewarding for my own self-esteem, but most weren't - some even looked down on me like "what a loser".

So if being a "good caring person" who goes out of my way to bring joy to people has no reward for me (not even perceived spiritually, because if there's no psychological reward, I'm incapable of seeing the spiritual reward), it's like why not just be an egoistic POS? No matter how much effort I put into anything, even the uneducated broke thug looks down on me as inferior, so it's like why should I give a crap about what anyone thinks about me? Why not just live for me?

It's a question I am struggling to answer other than what comes after death - but Hell is pure loneliness and no love, and I feel pure loneliness and no love. So besides that justification, I don't know; I want some rational justificaition for it other than fearing Yahweh sends me to burn forever.



Right now, it's almost like God is permitting everything He can to try to steer me towards darkness, and I'm just a stubborn boulder against a rapid stream.

The only sensible conclusion is that I only exist because God permits me too, meaning that I don't really exist independent of God - so I should do God's Will and be benevolent not caring about me, because God can take my life at any moment. But the real question that I can't answer is this - is my existence rooted in God having dominance over me, or God loving me? Right now I'm so lost that I can't actually know which one's correct.


I perceive that God wants me to keep moving forward and there is, in fact, a plan for me if I hold steadfast, but right now, I'm being tempted like Christ in the desert by some of the most infernal demons (trust me, the demons are real, once you experience some of the worst of them, you don't forget it). I've been tempted in remarkable ways actually, you would be shocked at some of the things I told you.

Also, I am not at all contemplating going down this path - it just seems like the unjust incessantly are rewarded while the morally good are given much to suffer.

[Ragnarok]

Also, today was a rough day. Prayers would be nice.

[DeiMateralma]

I will add you to my Rosary intentions tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christe Eleison]

 

Also, today was a rough day. Prayers would be nice.

Dear RAGNAROK,
We are PRAYING for you! 
SAINT MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL, PRAY FOR US! 

[Christe Eleison]

Also, today was a rough day. Prayers would be nice.

Dear Ragnarok,

I am sorry that you are going through a rough time. 
May Our Blessed Mother wrap you with her mantle!
God Bless you, R.