Author Topic: From Vigano  (Read 1999 times)

Offline Frank

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From Vigano
« on: September 16, 2021, 03:04:41 AM »
Abp. Viganò: COVID-19 vaccine, passport drive ‘an epochal war’ and ‘prelude to the end times’
The former Apostolic Nuncio to the United States compared the current state of the world to 'the great apostasy spoken of in second scripture.'
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Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò
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Tue Sep 14, 2021 - 6:49 pm EDT
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(LifeSiteNews) – In the first installment of an 18-part interview conducted by veteran Vatican journalist Robert Moynihan, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò asserted that the people of the world are being confronted with “war” from the aggression of public officials, with the support of even some Church authorities, who seek to violate their rights with gene-based vaccine mandates and accompanying passports.

“We are facing a siege on both the social and religious front,” stated the former Apostolic Nuncio to the United States. “The so-called emergency pandemic has been utilized as a false pretext to impose the vaccination and the Green Pass in many nations of the world, in a simultaneous and coordinated way.”



“At the same time, on the other front, not only do the ecclesiastical authorities not condemn in the least the abuse of power by those who govern public affairs, but they support them in this wicked plan, and go so far as to condemn those who do not accept being subjected to inoculation with an experimental gene serum, with unknown side effects, that does not impart any immunity from the virus,” the archbishop said.

In criticizing Church authorities on this point, he went on to emphasize that due to these experimental gene-based vaccines being tainted with abortion in either their production or testing, every Catholic has “more than sufficient” moral grounds “to refuse the vaccine.”

“We are at war,” he said, “a war that is not openly declared, that is not fought with conventional weapons, but a war all the same in which there are aggressors and aggressees, executioners and victims, kangaroo courts and prisoners. A war in which violence ensues in ostensibly legal forms in order to violate the rights of citizens as well as believers.

“It is an epochal war that is a prelude to the end times, and the great apostasy spoken of in second scripture,” the archbishop concluded.

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https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/abp-vigano-covid-19-vaccine-and-passport-drive-an-epochal-war-and-prelude-to-the-end-times/

The following are a series of Vigano tapes:




« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 03:24:05 AM by Frank »
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2021, 03:27:57 AM »
You forgot to post question 1 where he claims this is an epochal war.

This is all good fun stuff, grist for the mill, bones for the dogs, but how do we prove Vigano is wrong?  Because if we cannot then these statements just get deleted and cost Vigano nothing. Frs. Gruner, Kramer and others have claimed epochal wars in the past and they did not transpire.

If in a year from now things have calmed down and Australians and others can travel again and the unvaccinated are allowed to travel because Covid numbers are small and stable, (in other words it was a whole lot of fuss about the sky falling about a Chinese made cold that killed some freaks and old fat people), then was in not an epochal war?  It was just another chapter in the history of the world and a lesson not to mess around with viruses you cannot contain properly.

Or in September 2022 are they just lulling us into a false dawn?  How long do they have to execute their plan?

If China attacks Taiwan, or Russia invades Europe and World War 3 starts was Covid part of the plan or just a co-incidence that China exploited to do something it intended to do anyway.  Can virtually anything that happens morph into Vigano's prediction?

Can we agree what qualifies as a NWO population die off now?  Or what constitutes a global financial crash. Then we know later whether this speculation was right or wrong.  The world always has change going on.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 06:01:36 AM by MaximGun »
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2021, 05:30:26 AM »
Let's start with question number 3.

Accuses Bergoglio of using his power to support the dissolution of Traditional society and suggests this is unprecedented.  Sorry Archbishop Vigano but that has been going on for ages before Bergoglio and was supported by 1000s of Bishops and Priests and Cardinals and tacitly by 'Popes'.  Traditionally Popes did not pray with pagan religions or hide paedophile priests in the Vatican protecting them from prosecution or refuse to excommunicate pro-abortion politicians.  But JPII did since the 1980s.  JPII worked hand in glove with the world.

Nor did Popes fail to do something about it when 90% of Catholics were contracepted.  Anyone could see demographically where that would lead.

Here is my problem with +Vigano's credibility when he postulates on the "deep state" and the "deep church".  He reveals absolutely NOTHING that people were not discussing on AngelQueen or IRC back in the 1990s.  Trad Catholics knew back then that at some level they were working together because it was bloody obvious from the statements made, the actions taken (or not taken) and the results.  Read Gorbachev's statements about JPII

https://www.rferl.org/a/1058353.html

So back in 1989 JPII was working for a world that

"It is necessary to reach a freedom, a democracy, a society that respects human beings as the supreme value. It is necessary to give people the ability to choose, including the ability to choose their religion."

He was [a man] who did not put political calculation at the center, but who made his judgments about the world, about situations, about nature, about the environment, based on the right to life, to a worthy life for people and on the responsibility of those people for what is gong on in the world. I think that there has never been such an outstanding defender of the poor, the oppressed, the downtrodden in various cases and in various situations, either historically speaking or in terms of ongoing conflicts. He was a humanist. Really. A Humanist with a capital H, maybe the first humanist in world history.


That was Gorbachev's impression of JPII in the late 1980s.  It was also the impression of Traditionalists in 1986.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 06:14:51 AM by MaximGun »
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2021, 05:30:58 AM »
Furthermore...Vigano was a senior Vatican diplomat to the USA for very many years.

I am no expert on diplomacy but I do know it involves hanging around in large houses in Washington DC being served drinks and chatting to other important people (CEO's, mayor, politicians) who are invited.  The most politically and militarily powerful nation in the world (where you think the deep state might HAVE to operate from) and a Vatican diplomat, who however innocent, naïve and sincere he was back then, you would think would have picked up on plots, intrigue or over heard something about Bohemian Grove, or who financed the Georgia Guidestones or rolling up trouser legs or would have had suspicions about pizza parlours or child sacrifice.

The current frauds in the White House and their administration are the most "catholic" in history.  They never went to the diplomatic parties where Vigano was invited?  He never heard snippets of conversations with Wuerl, Mahony, Maida, Dolan, Cupich, Tobin talking to Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Clinton?  He never had a senior Catholic diplomat from South America, Asia or India confess to him or ask his advice about a bribe he was offered by the US state department to vaccinate his nation or promote "women's health services"?  Archbishop I would like to ask your advice in confidence?

He never had a Catholic senior military figure say something that made him think,  hmmm? 

If business is never discussed or whispered about at these Washington diplomatic parties then how do the deep state conduct it?  How could we all judge the tree by its fruits in the 1980s and 1990s and get it essentially right in terms of purpose and direction (even if your timing was optimistic), yet Vigano hangs around in these circles and now has no evidence at all and is reduced to pure speculation basically regurgitating all the stuff smart Traditionalists had suspected all along?

Vigano has never revealed anything that I could not work out by inference years before.  He literally regurgitates long held conspiracies and people who have wondered around with blinkers on are impressed because of the soutane and the skull cap.

How can he be so sure now about the end of the epoch by simply regurgitating other people's hypothesis and yet for years reading and carrying documents about clerical abuse and Vatican diplomatic goals and proposals fail to put 2 and 2 together and build a case by photocopying evidence?

It reminds me of "JP2 is a prisoner in the Vatican" stuff back in the 1980s which a good 25% of Traditionalists wanted to believe but I never saw a single person back away from and say, "You know, actually I was wrong.  He was just a humanist and shitty Catholic and most of that abuse he was happy with".  He was not a prisoner in the Vatican and neither is B16.  B16 is a happy retired old man sitting in the sun in Rome able to wake up when he wants and sleep when he wants.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 06:05:21 AM by MaximGun »
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2021, 06:13:46 AM »
In summary, it is my view that the Church was in deep shit whether Bergoglio or any other modernist scumbag who could get elected by the modernist scumbags that JPII and B16 put into power.  And they were put in power by humanists and heretics given that power by Paul VI and John XXIII.

Bergoglio could be replaced by also any electable Cardinal and the same humanist, environmentalist, sodomite-friendly, church of nithe agenda would be promoted.

What is Vigano? I refer to video 4 where he talks about a sacrosanct rite.

Now I am assuming that he said the new rite of mass until his recent reversion and now exclusively says the old mass, though to the best of my knowledge he is not offering mass publicly.  Why not?

Is Vigano a man who had the blinkers fall from his eyes all of a sudden and is therefore impressive to lay Catholics or younger priests who have had the same experience or was he aware of the problems all along and just said and did nothing about it?

I never see this question answered?  It needs to be answered really before I can understand what motivates him and what he sees his role as other that sitting around in hiding, retired, and making YT videos.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 06:24:51 AM by MaximGun »
 
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Offline Frank

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2021, 08:24:20 AM »
Good analysis Max. I like it. :toth:
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2021, 08:59:15 AM »
Not saying Vigano is bad.  I just don't see what he is other than clickbait.

Arch Lefebvre predicted Leicester City would win when they were in Division 4.  Everyone else said he was wrong, a dinosaur, rigid, disobedient, schismatic etc. Arch Vigano is telling people Leicester City will win in stoppage time of the final when they lead three nil.  Then going on to sew his ideas to various prophecies.

Why listen to Vigano in 18 videos when you can simply read Lefebvre and using his principles take a guess at what might or might not happen yourself?

These are professional religionists.  Is it too much to ask for them to see the consequences of religious changes.  Like a meteorological professional can say what is likely to happen to the weather if air pressure changes or the gulf stream moves.

Did they really think those contracepted Catholic couples would live environmentally friendly lives, drive cardboard bicycles and donate their excess wealth to the poor?  How was filling seminaries with sodomites going to usher in a new springtime?  They knew they had loads of homosexually inclined men.  How was that going to turn out well.  I am talking about the normal clerics now not the bad actors who want to destroy the church.

When was the last day that any honest actor could look at the state of the Church and think the new evangelisation had any hope of success?  Decades ago.

If you build house without good foundations will being filled with the spirit of hope and dialogue make that house stand and last?  It should not take long for engineers to see how the building might collapse.

Professional religionists, worth their salt, should not take 50 years to see what is obvious.  The new springtime is FUBAR.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 09:04:16 AM by MaximGun »
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2021, 11:54:19 AM »
Here is number 6


Basically he says obedience is not slavery and one should not obey apostates, heretics and cafeteria Catholics because doing so is complicity.

One video per question?  I can see the upside depending on the audience they are going after.

 
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2021, 12:14:56 PM »
Before being sent away to DC, Vigano cleaned up massive financial corruption in Vatican Bank.
He has freely admitted to being a relative latecomer, and playing catch up.
I'm very grateful he made it out of DC alive. 
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2021, 12:56:14 PM »
Quote
He has freely admitted to being a relative latecomer, and playing catch up.

This I don't understand.  It is REALLY difficult for me to understand how anyone can be so detached from reality or a willingness to find out the truth.

It is like being in Afghanistan busy running a business and not noticing the Taliban have taken over.  In 2042 they play catch-up and grow a longer beard.

He is 80 years old.  So he was raised as a boy with proper Catholic nuns in Italy and the catechism and the Latin Mass and large Italian families between 1940 and 1960.  Those formative years of his Italy was Catholic.

Did he not notice the precipitous birth-rate?  The closed convents?  The communion in the hand?  The divorce rate shooting up?  The African prostitutes on the streets and truck stops around Rome.  The homosexual prostitutes that his fellow clergy were meeting?  How does a person not notice Italian and European society degenerating and at least wonder about the cause of it?

Surely he noticed what Lefebvre did in the 1970s.  Did he not have the time to visit the SSPX chapel and see what they were all about?  Dress in secular clothing and attend.  Read Lefebvre's book at the very least and say, "well I can see his point, he does appear to have a genuine concern".

Even if you conclude at the time that Lefebvre should just suck it up and obey then what happens at Assisi in 1986?  How do you square that circle?  That was big news at the time and Traditionalists kicked up a fuss.  How on earth does a person who believes in objective truth defend or stay neutral about JPII at Assisi ?

 

Offline Frank

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2021, 01:01:55 PM »
Also, I believe he has said that the SSPX are in schism.

I see Greg has made a comment.
Use search (Ctrl F) to find it among
the plethora of comments.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 01:44:29 PM by Frank »
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 
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Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2021, 01:55:03 PM »
I had not heard that but if he said that then he is going batty in the head.

Schism from what exactly?

There is a possibility with all aging clerics that they go a little senile and conspiratorial and jump on a bandwagon and attack their old crew.

Anyone remember Archbishop Emmanuel Milingo?  He was a minor celebrity in the Trad world when he went to a few Fatima Centre conferences and Fr. Gruner bigged up his talks on Exorcism and Rome being run by Satanists.

Then shortly afterwards Milingo went completely nuts and married a Moonie bride and started ordaining priests and consecrating bishops.  Was pretty embarrassing for Fr. Gruner because he had been taken in that this African Archbishop was the real deal.

It is possible that Archbishop Vigano is a little bit crackers/senile/paranoid and that is the reason for his conversion to Tradition, which is sort of like fly-paper for lunatics.  It would also explain why he hides away and does YouTube interviews rather than joining say the SSPX and doing confirmations and ordaining priests.  He might be paranoid that they want to kill him.  It is worth considering his actions in light of that possibility.

And before you say "he is not senile stop attacking him", I would say this.  Nobody, literally NOBODY, thought Milingo was an unhinged African nutcase at the Fatima conference in 1996.  Sometimes charity and wanting to believe an Archbishop has found the Catholic faith again, overrides the fact that it is a vanishingly rare event.  The only time it has ever happened before was Milingo.

Archbishops always die as they lived over the last 60 years.  When one finds the faith of his youth we should ask why?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 02:12:10 PM by MaximGun »
 

Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2021, 02:22:01 PM »
Also, I believe he has said that the SSPX are in schism.

I checked and I don't think he did say that.  Quite the opposite in fact.  People who think they are in schism like Tim, Taylor Marshall's old friend are attacking him for praising the SSPX.
 

Online MaximGun

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2021, 02:27:12 PM »
https://funeralnearme.com/emmanuel-milingo-funeral/

Milingo is dead by the look of it.

Died in Feb this year, but not widely reported.
 

Offline mikemac

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Re: From Vigano
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2021, 04:44:56 PM »
If you want to watch these tapes from the beginning then here's #1.

The Viganò Tapes #1: The Current Situation

Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 
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