Author Topic: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?  (Read 6007 times)

Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2021, 03:38:34 PM »
What I have noticed from those who took the vaccine, is an almost tangible irritation and anger at those who refuse it and I put it down to jealousy that we have taken the stand and mean it and a shame in their own weakness being shown up by our own steadfastness.  Akin to the novus ordo lukewarm Catholics attacking like dogs, those of us who take our religion seriously, have tons of kids and live frugal lives and take the mocking that comes with loving Christ.
Yes, this is my sense, also.
 Bro. Alexis Bugnolo, went into hideous detail of the "revolt of the jabbed" in his scary recent doom video. 

Raging, envious, with nothing to loose, betrayed mobs...never underestimate the Envy of thy neighbor's Spiritual Goods in the advent of Antichrist.  (only half joking)
 
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Offline ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

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Offline diaduit

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2021, 03:38:52 PM »
Do you all have the saying "crabs in a bucket" over in Ireland?

no and I just googled it....we call it 'misery loves company'
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2021, 03:50:37 PM »
What if every human being took the vaccine without a fight by Christmas.  What happens after that? Do we go back to normal?  what is the next stage of the whole Covid process after everyone gets vaccinated? What, the last two years would just be a chapter in a history book? 

No way do all the governments of the world work hand in glove towards pfizer making billions.  Its just too much effort, too much resources, too much organisation, for little reward for the individual politicians. There has to be an overall agenda.

Now if you believe like I do that the prophecy in the bible in the Book of Revelations, we are heading towards a NWO under Satan's influence that will enslave every human being and they will live like miserable rats in urban hell holes to work unceasingly for the cabal who will outlaw faith, families, monogamy,  then losing one's home and hiding in the forest is a 5 star alternative to eternal misery and eternity in hell.

Do you think Gadaffi and Saddam Hussain sat around all day and thought, what will I do if this happens and what will I do if that happens?  Or do you think they reacted to each thing that happened as best they could?  Neither even had a bolt-hole planned.  A third world dictator to host them and a way of being left alone by western powers (like a file on George Bush having sex with children for example).  How many billions did they waste on palaces when they could have set that sting up?

Did Hitler ever have a meeting and ask, "What happens if something similar happens to our Army that has 3/4 of Stalingrad surrounded and the Russians in a right pickle, if the winter closes in on us and the Russians snipe at us trapped in a ruined city?"  No he did not.  He assumed they would beat the Russians and hold Stalingrad.  A reasonable assumption.

Remember that Hitler was a genius at executing plans compared to these clowns who run western countries.  He took France in 4 weeks and went through western Russia like a dose of salts.  The entire war only took 5 years and our homespun clowns have spent 18 months and about as much money as WW" jabbing 2 billion people with a vaccine that is of little use for protection and does not stop transmission.

I don't think they know what they are doing.  They are looking at each other and trying to work out what works and what might keep them in power for a while longer.  If people pushed back they would find these clowns would not know what to do.  Same thing happened with the collapse of the Soviet Union. There was no viable plan.
 

Offline diaduit

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2021, 04:03:16 PM »
You know what happened to Gadaffi, Sadam and Hitler !!

I don't know the exact answer and despite what you think from my posting, I do not spend my days thinking about it either.  I do have some basics done, food storage, invested in some animals and practiced growing my own etc.  I am networking with my own kind and building good friendships.  However we are living life as if its fine, my son is starting higher education in the city and moving out of home and I am continuing with life moving forward with future plans for the rest of the kids.   

My response was to show that acquiescing to the coercion to jab is very short term thinking and if every human being on earth vaccinates, do you think we will be allowed to live life happy and carefree!!   I don't think so.
 
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Offline Jayne

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2021, 01:48:36 PM »
I know some people who claim that they would rather get fired than jabbed. I pointed out to one of them that his wife and kids are relying on his income and he said "If I lose my house, that's fine. God will provide."
I think there's a fine line between standing up for your beliefs and station-of-life suicide.

Sounds fine until you consider what the early first, second, and third century Christians went through for Christ. If they thought the same way you do there would have been no early martyrs.

O it is only a little pinch of incense. It really doesn't mean anything.

Refusing the vaccine has nothing to do with the Catholic faith. You are not a martyr if you suffer for this choice. You are a stubborn fool. It is imprudent to the point of sinfulness to stop providing for your family because of this.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2021, 01:53:53 PM »
What I have noticed from those who took the vaccine, is an almost tangible irritation and anger at those who refuse it and I put it down to jealousy that we have taken the stand and mean it and a shame in their own weakness being shown up by our own steadfastness. 

Actually it is because so many of you are very annoying. People who refuse the vaccine are often very smug and self-righteous about it. Your post above is a good example. You assume that getting vaccinated is a sign of weakness. Of course that irritates people.

Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline lauermar

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2021, 02:39:49 PM »
In answer to the original question, I cannot imagine God would judge it immoral for someone to change to an occupation that does not require a shot and allows one to work remotely, such as telemarketing from home, selling trinkets on eBay, making goods for sale on Etsy, designing web pages, etc.

It's a different situation when hospitals and other health providers suffer because staff members quit or walked off the job as the deadline for the shot approaches. There could be a moral problem with it if they quit before giving the employer a chance to hire and train a replacement, leaving the medical provider so short on staff, it puts patients' lives in danger. This happened to a nursing home not far from me. They lost a lot of patient care staff, so now there are only 3 CNAs stretched out to care for every 16 residents. This is dangerous. The moral question of putting others' lives in jeopardy seems to me like a greater evil then accepting one of the vaccines that was tested on fetal cells for safety, but does not contain actual fetal cells inside of it (Pfizer, Moderna.) This is a good question to ask a priest.

The moral thing to do is give your employer at least 2 weeks' advance notice of your departure if you are a healthcare worker.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 02:54:50 PM by lauermar »
"I am not a pessimist. I am not an optimist. I am a realist." Father Malachi Martin (1921-1999)
 
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Offline ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2021, 02:43:51 PM »
No...
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2021, 03:02:36 PM »
Jayne,

Two questions for you.

1.  If the vaccine turns out to be a medical disaster and causes Covid to kill way more people than it would have without a vaccine, either through the vaccine causing mutations or ADE and immune system weakening of the vaccinated, and this is reluctantly accepted by science, then would you change your view above?  Let's assume 50 million people die worldwide in the next 10 years and they are nearly all vaccinated.  i.e. The unvaccinated die in much smaller numbers and consistent with the demographic they have been dying up until now.

I am not suggesting there is much evidence for this now, there is not, but let's say it happens and the anti-vax people are completely vindicated.  Does that make a difference to your view?  Is their smug attitude (which really they need to adopt in order to be ready to make the sacrifices or job losses, their children being banned from schools and colleges and their inability to travel) justified if they turn out to be right.  In a sense they saved 10 million people, the unvaccinated.  The future of humanity would be down to their stubbornness and wisdom.

2.  If when the numbers are added up the vaccine is seen as marginally negative or positive, in other words it achieved or lost very little medically speaking (other than the massive societal conflict of forcing it on everyone and firing people from their jobs for not accepting the vaccine) would you change your view above?

Does "science" and government have an explicit moral duty to get a positive outcome if their plan involves causing a huge amount of friction in society and a huge restriction on freedoms and legal rights?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 03:07:32 PM by MaximGun »
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2021, 03:35:31 PM »
Jayne,

Two questions for you.

1.  If the vaccine turns out to be a medical disaster and causes Covid to kill way more people than it would have without a vaccine, either through the vaccine causing mutations or ADE and immune system weakening of the vaccinated, and this is reluctantly accepted by science, then would you change your view above?  Let's assume 50 million people die worldwide in the next 10 years and they are nearly all vaccinated.  i.e. The unvaccinated die in much smaller numbers and consistent with the demographic they have been dying up until now.

I am not suggesting there is much evidence for this now, there is not, but let's say it happens and the anti-vax people are completely vindicated.  Does that make a difference to your view?  Is their smug attitude (which really they need to adopt in order to be ready to make the sacrifices or job losses, their children being banned from schools and colleges and their inability to travel) justified if they turn out to be right.  In a sense they saved 10 million people, the unvaccinated.  The future of humanity would be down to their stubbornness and wisdom.

If they somehow turned out to be right, it would be a lucky guess, not wisdom.   And if they turn out to be wrong, they will have caused a lot of harm.

If there were good evidence that the vaccine were as dangerous as you speculate, people would be justified in losing jobs over refusing to take it.  But, as you say, there is not much evidence for this now.  At this point, all the sacrifices and job losses seem to be unnecessary (and so is the smugness).

2.  If when the numbers are added up the vaccine is seen as marginally negative or positive, in other words it achieved or lost very little medically speaking (other than the massive societal conflict of forcing it on everyone and firing people from their jobs for not accepting the vaccine) would you change your view above?

Does "science" and government have an explicit moral duty to get a positive outcome if their plan involves causing a huge amount of friction in society and a huge restriction on freedoms and legal rights?

The government has a moral duty to work for the common good.  People are going to disagree about what the means in specific situations.  Theoretically, the government can restrict freedoms and legal rights in some situations.

As far as traditional Catholic moral theology is concerned, getting these vaccinations are an instance of remote material cooperation with evil.   That means it should be avoided, if possible, and only accepted when there is a proportionate reason for doing so.  When our priest (SSPX) was explaining "proportionate reason" he included the specific example of losing one's job for refusing vaccination.  Our Catholic faith does not require us to refuse vaccination if it means losing one's job.  People who present themselves as some sort of model Catholics for doing this unnecessary thing are wrong  (and irritating).


Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
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Offline diaduit

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2021, 03:56:54 PM »
In answer to the original question, I cannot imagine God would judge it immoral for someone to change to an occupation that does not require a shot and allows one to work remotely, such as telemarketing from home, selling trinkets on eBay, making goods for sale on Etsy, designing web pages, etc.

It's a different situation when hospitals and other health providers suffer because staff members quit or walked off the job as the deadline for the shot approaches. There could be a moral problem with it if they quit before giving the employer a chance to hire and train a replacement, leaving the medical provider so short on staff, it puts patients' lives in danger. This happened to a nursing home not far from me. They lost a lot of patient care staff, so now there are only 3 CNAs stretched out to care for every 16 residents. This is dangerous. The moral question of putting others' lives in jeopardy seems to me like a greater evil then accepting one of the vaccines that was tested on fetal cells for safety, but does not contain actual fetal cells inside of it (Pfizer, Moderna.) This is a good question to ask a priest.

The moral thing to do is give your employer at least 2 weeks' advance notice of your departure if you are a healthcare worker.

Oh my God, you are infuriating .....mandates put the patients at risk and those who enforce them. 
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2021, 07:47:17 PM »
I don't think it is a lucky guess.  All of the anti jab people I know have a deep seated distrust of the people coercing them.

They really think the behaviour is creepy.

Seems to me much more like intuition.  They sense they are being pressured, lied to, manipulated, coerced.

Hard to argue they are not.
 

Offline Christe Eleison

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2021, 08:16:45 PM »
College athlete delivers warning from hospital bed after developing myocarditis following vaccine


"A division 1 golfer has developed myocarditis. According to the man, 4 days after the 2nd dose of the NCAA mandated covid-19 vaccine he developed heart problems which have sent him into the hospital. his future athletics career is at uncertain."

John Stokes, who also is an Academic Medal of Honor student, posted a TikTok video after he came down with myocarditis and was told he was out of competition for the season.

Sadly, this is Stokes’ final year in school, so he most likely won’t be playing college golf anymore. Stokes, 21, came down with myocarditis four days after his second dose of vaccine, and ended up in the hospital. In the video he says he knows other players who have had to have either heart surgery or have cardiac problems after their shots, too.

In his TikTok video he urges the NCAA to stop mandating the vaccine for athletes. “I wish someone would have told me” about the risks of taking the vaccine, he says. “It isn’t right for people to be forced to take the vaccine because there are actual side effects like this that could happen to you.”
 
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Offline ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

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Re: Is it immoral to decline the vaxx if you will lose your job over it?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2021, 08:45:01 PM »
I don't think it is a lucky guess.  All of the anti jab people I know have a deep seated distrust of the people coercing them.

They really think the behaviour is creepy.

Seems to me much more like intuition.  They sense they are being pressured, lied to, manipulated, coerced.

Hard to argue they are not.

Call it a sensus mundum.

We know there are risks.  That there are risks is virtually tautological.  All vaccines have risks.  The risks of this vaccine are myocarditis, coagulopathies, CJD, spontaneous abortion, sterilization, antibody-dependent enhancement, and all of the usual flu jab suspects -- Guillain-Barre syndrome and other diseases caused by demyelination, autoimmune disease, etc.

If someone tells me that there are no risks, I know he is a liar.

We know that the chance of developing one of these conditions is not small.  There have been over 600,000 adverse events reported to VAERS and almost 15,000 reported deaths [1] (not counting the vast underreporting that typically takes place and the reports that have been censored.)  Past vaccines' rates of adverse events haven't been anywhere near this high.  The Swine Flu vaccine was pulled from the market in 1976 after only 53 deaths.  The seasonal flu vaccine, which is given to 195 million Americans, causes only 20-30 deaths per year.  The COVID "vaccine" death rate is at least a hundred times higher.

If someone tells me me that the probability of experiencing an adverse event is negligible, I know he is a liar.

We know that the case fatality rate for a COVID patient who is 59 years of age or less is 1 in 300,000.  We've known for months that the vaccine represents a far greater risk, especially in younger populations. [2]

If someone tells me that the vaccine is safer than the disease for a person under the age of 59, I know he is a liar.

So, what other arguments are we left with?  Jab your kids to save grandma?

No.  Adults make sacrifices to benefit children, not the other way around.  Subjecting my kids to a dangerous, experimental treatment in order to save some old people is a satanic inversion of this universal moral norm.


1. https://openvaers.com/index.php
2. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/experimental-vaccine-death-rate-for-israels-elderly-40-times-higher-than-covid-19-deaths-researchers/
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 08:51:42 PM by ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez »
 
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