Why your kids absolutely need to be well-rounded

[Jacob]

World history books for a sheltered young teen?

Looking for books on world history (i.e. not solely or primarily focused on Europe and the US) that are suitable for an inquisitive 14-year-old from a sheltered background.

A curious and sharp 14-year-old boy in my extended family wants to learn more history. His parents are very conservative, and they have homeschooled him his entire life. This has given him a radically skewed view of world history. What he's learned has all been from a hard-right American Catholic perspective, focused exclusively on white people in the US and Europe. The good news is that he's become aware that this perspective is skewed, and is asking for help finding history books that will un-skew that perspective. In particular, he's asking for books that will teach him about the history of the entire world, not just Christians in Europe and the US.

There's more and then the replies, so go read it all.

What's the way to teach a kid world history in a way where he's not left vulnerable to stuff like this?

[Heinrich]

The person writing this is clearly skewed and not honest and open minded, that's for sure. But anyway, Simon Schama's book on the French Revolution is comprehensive and fair.
https://www.amazon.com/Citizens-Chronicle-Revolution-Simon-Schama/dp/0679726101/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1J2IKVW6T7Z78&keywords=citizens+a+chronicle+of+the+french+revolution+by+simon+schama&qid=1578191603&sprefix=Simon+Schama+French%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1

[Gardener]

Yes, people do need to be well-rounded. But in 10 years that kid will learn his 2nd perspective was also BS and he will flounder. The reality is things are complicated in that they're ultimately simple. History is largely fantasy because even the presentation of facts skews the perception of them.

No one wants to hear about the demonic human sacrifices of the Celts. Just that the peaceful druids got overthrown after the arrival of monks. So then modern "druids" get to act like they're just continuing a tradition.

No one wants to hear about the demonic human sacrifices of the Aztecs. They were an advanced and civilized people, full of culture until those brute conquistadors bungled it up. And their legacy is ready to be revived by their apostate Catholic progeny.

The reality is Christianity made the world in which we live. Only in the last few hundred years has it started slipping. It's necessary to know about it if one wants to know their own history.

But by all means, learn about the homosexual tribes in Papau New Guinea (or was it Indonesia?) that are homo except for specifically procreating. Sounds like the western tomorrow, frankly.

Just no one tell the Christians in Kerala they're living in a Euro-centric creation. It will confuse them since they (and we all) thought St. Thomas the Apostle was a brown man from the Middle East.

[Daniel]

The underlying problem seems to be that the kid has fallen into a sort of curiosity and a distrust towards his conservative education. No idea how to prevent this, though I'd think the risk would be lessened through better conservative education and by nipping the problem in the bud.

If you raise a kid to love what's holy, then by the time he's a young adult he loves what is holy. He doesn't suddenly jump ship and become a liberal, or have any desire to do so.

I'd say the 'well-rounded' thing is a myth. Children shouldn't be exposed to liberal viewpoints until the time is right, because the liberal viewpoints at an early age are just going to confuse them and seduce them. Show them the liberalism only after they are able to see it for the evil it is.

[Jacob]

Obviously we have no idea what this kid's actual education has encompassed so far.  If you think that poster is being unfair to the homeschooling parents, that is certainly possible and probably probable, but for the sake of this thread, I'm not assuming it.

If we go by what is set out in that post, that the kid has learned about nothing else besides Christian history set in the Near East and Europe.  By well-rounded, I am not suggesting "liberal" but merely what could be done to fill out his knowledge of the rest of the world?  What books could be recommended to augment what his parents are already teaching him so that his curiosity is slated and he isn't left exposed to family members who think he needs to be saved from his parents teaching him solely about dead white men?

[Daniel]

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[John Lamb]

If I had an intelligent child that I knew would have to learn about different philosophies and worldviews some day, I would give him Plato & Aristotle in his early teens and help teach him how to think abstractly, critically, and analytically. At the same time I'd be giving him systematic theology like the works of Frank Sheed. Then the child would have a solid basis to learn different views without being drawn in necessarily, and would know how to articulate a Catholic response to them. The most important thing is to learn how to consider an idea without accepting it, and examine it from many angles.

If I had an a average or unintelligent child, I would just give them the Catholic teaching and tell them to love other people and not to take themselves or others too seriously. Non-Catholics have plenty to teach us on any number of things, but the core Catholic doctrine is solid and true, and that's what they need to understand.

[John Lamb]

Obviously we have no idea what this kid's actual education has encompassed so far.  If you think that poster is being unfair to the homeschooling parents, that is certainly possible and probably probable, but for the sake of this thread, I'm not assuming it.

If we go by what is set out in that post, that the kid has learned about nothing else besides Christian history set in the Near East and Europe.  By well-rounded, I am not suggesting "liberal" but merely what could be done to fill out his knowledge of the rest of the world?  What books could be recommended to augment what his parents are already teaching him so that his curiosity is slated and he isn't left exposed to family members who think he needs to be saved from his parents teaching him solely about dead white men?

If you're going to homeschool exclusively I imagine it would be worth investing in a decent encyclopedia.

https://brandonvogt.com/kreeft-philosophy-books/

https://brandonvogt.com/philosophybooks/

[Tales]

If you totally shelter your kids until they are 18 then they have been set up for failure.  Parents need to front-run all of the crap that modern society is working quadruple overtime to throw at them through the internet, tv, movies, music, school and government.  We don't live in the good ol' days anymore back in some village in Italy where everyone basically thinks and believes the same thing as everyone else.  Now there are a billion competing ideas out there each looking to dominate our minds.

Also I'd note that simply painting everyone as evil is also going to fail as well.  For example, if you drill into your kids' heads that homosexuality is wrong, and leave it at that, then the first time they meet a very chatty and friendly person who just so happens to be an active homosexual, then it will utterly blow up their image of homosexuality as wrong and wreck all of the parents' credibility.  This can be applied to things like other religions as well.

Heinrich's book suggestion is a good one as it helps reveal the depths of evil lurking underneath modern society.  Short of the school of hard knocks, stories are the next best way to make something stick in a person's head.  Kids need to be shown repeatedly that idealism is a bunch of B.S.  Show them stories of the horrors of liberalism (French Revolution is a great one), show them stories of the failures of modernity (celebrities' disastrous lives, for example), show them stories of how Islam spread compared to Christianity, show them the moronic things professors in college teach and the disasters their bad ideas have reigned upon us all.

All of this needs to be repeatedly front-run for many years prior to them leaving home.  They need to have a strong stockpile of stories in mind, anecdotes to ward them off from the millions of new bad ideas constantly being created.

Edit:  Also I think Charles Coulombe's "Puritan's Empire" should be required reading for high school aged Catholics.

[Daniel]

If I had an intelligent child that I knew would have to learn about different philosophies and worldviews some day, I would give him Plato & Aristotle in his early teens and help teach him how to think abstractly, critically, and analytically. At the same time I'd be giving him systematic theology like the works of Frank Sheed. Then the child would have a solid basis to learn different views without being drawn in necessarily, and would know how to articulate a Catholic response to them. The most important thing is to learn how to consider an idea without accepting it, and examine it from many angles.

This won't work though, because Plato and Aristotle are (mildly) poisonous. Frank Sheed's books are interesting, but he's too Thomistic. Thomism is not the authentic "Catholic response" but is just one philosophy among many (which apparently cannot hold its ground against the worse philosophies of the modern thinkers). If you come to equate Thomism with Catholicism, you're going to find yourself questioning the faith as soon as you come to see Thomism for what it really is: a dubious philosophy not much better off (philosophically speaking) than any other philosophy.

But the fact is, you just can't fight any one philosophy with any other philosophy. In fact, you can't fight philosophies at all. Because philosophies, even highly-dubious philosophies, are irrefutable. The only wise option is to reject them without fighting them. Because they are deceptive and dangerous, and, no matter how intelligent you are, the more you're exposed to them, the more prone you are to start accepting all sorts of errors, even without realizing it.

[Heinrich]

If you totally shelter your kids until they are 18 then they have been set up for failure.  Parents need to front-run all of the crap that modern society is working quadruple overtime to throw at them through the internet, tv, movies, music, school and government.  We don't live in the good ol' days anymore back in some village in Italy where everyone basically thinks and believes the same thing as everyone else.  Now there are a billion competing ideas out there each looking to dominate our minds.

Also I'd note that simply painting everyone as evil is also going to fail as well.  For example, if you drill into your kids' heads that homosexuality is wrong, and leave it at that, then the first time they meet a very chatty and friendly person who just so happens to be an active homosexual, then it will utterly blow up their image of homosexuality as wrong and wreck all of the parents' credibility.  This can be applied to things like other religions as well.

Heinrich's book suggestion is a good one as it helps reveal the depths of evil lurking underneath modern society.  Short of the school of hard knocks, stories are the next best way to make something stick in a person's head.  Kids need to be shown repeatedly that idealism is a bunch of B.S.  Show them stories of the horrors of liberalism (French Revolution is a great one), show them stories of the failures of modernity (celebrities' disastrous lives, for example), show them stories of how Islam spread compared to Christianity, show them the moronic things professors in college teach and the disasters their bad ideas have reigned upon us all.

All of this needs to be repeatedly front-run for many years prior to them leaving home.  They need to have a strong stockpile of stories in mind, anecdotes to ward them off from the millions of new bad ideas constantly being created.

Edit:  Also I think Charles Coulombe's "Puritan's Empire" should be required reading for high school aged Catholics.

That is why the study of literature is important, especially Shakespeare: King Lear's rotten kids, Lady Macbeth, Othello, etc. "They" are lurking everywhere in modern society.

[Tales]

That is why the study of literature is important, especially Shakespeare: King Lear's rotten kids, Lady Macbeth, Othello, etc. "They" are lurking everywhere in modern society.

Yes, I'd say it would be good to repeatedly show the failures and disastrous consequences of vice filled lives in modern times, then when they are older and read classic literature they will immediately be able to relate it to something they are familiar with.

[coffeeandcigarette]

Obviously we have no idea what this kid's actual education has encompassed so far.  If you think that poster is being unfair to the homeschooling parents, that is certainly possible and probably probable, but for the sake of this thread, I'm not assuming it.

If we go by what is set out in that post, that the kid has learned about nothing else besides Christian history set in the Near East and Europe.  By well-rounded, I am not suggesting "liberal" but merely what could be done to fill out his knowledge of the rest of the world?  What books could be recommended to augment what his parents are already teaching him so that his curiosity is slated and he isn't left exposed to family members who think he needs to be saved from his parents teaching him solely about dead white men?

If you're going to homeschool exclusively I imagine it would be worth investing in a decent encyclopedia.

https://brandonvogt.com/kreeft-philosophy-books/

https://brandonvogt.com/philosophybooks/

I have never met a home educator that didn't own an encyclopedia, or several.

[Gerard]

Objectivity is probably the most important lesson a child could possibly learn to help them in life.   People have to learn to look past the fog of emotions otherwise, they will glom onto the history or perspective on anything that best suits their mood. They will psychologically project onto the subject what they "feel" around them and assume it's true.

I first learned this as a child when I discovered that the Flintstones were not real people.   Talk about a let down.

Get a book debunking a liberal book and make sure it's one that legitimately debunks the liberal book.  You might want to have him read the liberal book first and get that feeling of being manipulated into him in order to demonstrate the value of being aware of attempts to persuade. 

A shortcut version of this is to have him watch a compelling movie like "Inherit the Wind" (or read the play) and then show what liberties were taken with history and what omissions and falsifications are included in the story.

To paraphrase the old "give a man a fish" maxim. 

If you fish around for a good book, you give someone a good book and they are helped in a limited way.  If you teach them how to fish around for a good book, you help them for the rest of their life. 

[dellery]

World history books for a sheltered young teen?

Looking for books on world history (i.e. not solely or primarily focused on Europe and the US) that are suitable for an inquisitive 14-year-old from a sheltered background.

A curious and sharp 14-year-old boy in my extended family wants to learn more history. His parents are very conservative, and they have homeschooled him his entire life. This has given him a radically skewed view of world history. What he's learned has all been from a hard-right American Catholic perspective, focused exclusively on white people in the US and Europe. The good news is that he's become aware that this perspective is skewed, and is asking for help finding history books that will un-skew that perspective. In particular, he's asking for books that will teach him about the history of the entire world, not just Christians in Europe and the US.

There's more and then the replies, so go read it all.

What's the way to teach a kid world history in a way where he's not left vulnerable to stuff like this?

That question is being asked by a dimwitted idiot of a troll who can't tell the difference between US Catholics and backward fundamental Protestants.

Safe from what?? Being a "homophobic, xenophobic, Trump-supporter" carrying around the baggage of "sexism and gender essentialism", or the low-minded Marxist propaganda put forth as a historic alternative to the "hard-right American Catholic perspective, focused exclusively on white people in the US and Europe"?