Yesterday while cleaning my daughters room I discovered a journal entry she wrote discussing how she had bisexual feelings and how she liked another girl. She's 15 and does online school, no free access to internet or TV. How do I handle this properly and in a loving way? My first instinct is to freak out because I am so worried about her soul, but I don't want to push her away either.
Advice would be very appreciated!
Are you Mom or Dad?
I was that 15 year old girl, and I will tell you that it is USUALLY a phase they can grow out of. I grew out of it on my own by the grace of God, and am married with children. Sometimes teenagers are just confused and end up oversexualizing their friendships. I didn't have much of a relationship with my dad, I had no brothers, and the boys in my high school were all worthless jerks that never captured my attraction. I did find myself attracted to older men (usually teachers or college aged guys) but these men were all "off limits." I grew out of it on my own once I graduated high school, and I wasn't even a practicing Catholic at the time. Thank goodness I was so afraid of intimacy that I never acted on those feelings, and I'm still not entirely convinced that I ever had true homosexual feelings. It was just a readymade identity that I could cling to during a time when I had no sense of who I was.
One thing that made me gravitate to the "bisexual" identity was that I have always, since I was a little child, felt like I never fit in. I was bullied in elementary and middle school, so from the get-go I felt isolated from my peers. Once I got older, I started looking for reasons for this deep feeling like I was a misfit. Was I gay? Was I bisexual? I can't be gay because I keep having these crushes on male movie stars and my male history teacher, so maybe I'm bi? Could that be it? The only thing I could be sure of was that I didn't fit in with all the other straight girls in middle school and high school, who only seemed interested in flirting with boys our age. Oh, and daddy issues. I had loads of those.
Once I started wondering if I was "bi," I found a group of other local teenagers who identified that way, and they were like my tribe. I would not be surprised if 50% of these confused teens grew out of it and are already married to members of the opposite sex. The big defining feature of this group is that we were tolerant and accepting. It was the first time I ever felt like I belonged somewhere. This is after going to two different youth groups at two different parishes, and feeling like I couldn't fit in with them. These groups were mostly the same "popular" kids from my school who made fun of me during the week. I had really low self esteem at the time (probably from having divorced parents and years of bullying) so hanging out with the Gay-Straight Alliance kids made me feel good about myself. One thing I'll note--very few of us ever seemed to engage in actual homosexual contact. For a lot of us, it was more about identity than sexual experiences.
This is probably what your daughter needs right now:
- A sense of identity
- A sense of belonging
- True, healthy meaningful friendships with members of the same sex
- An understanding of God's plan for her sexuality.
As the parent, the primary focus right now should be helping her develop her own identity in Christ and giving her a group of Catholic peers who will accept her.
One thing I'll say is that if you discovered this via reading her journal, and you tell her that, this is going to seriously harm her ability to trust you. When I found out my mom was reading my diary, I didn't trust her for years and never told her anything. I just got better at hiding my private stuff. So you may do more damage by confronting her about this, but what you can do is indirectly talk to her about God's plan for sexuality and have a heart to heart discussion about her life that might encourage her to open up. If she doesn't trust you enough to talk about this stuff, I don't know what to tell you other than to work on trust.
Also, you need to read this articles about the sexualization of friendship, which is what sexually confused teens do all the time:
http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/28/how-to-stop-sexualizing-everything/
http://blog.adw.org/2016/01/on-the-demise-of-the-true-love-of-friends-in-an-age-of-lost-innocence/
https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/alise-wright-cross-sex-friendships
What is likely is that your daughter is taking perfectly normal teenage friendships, and unconsciously sexualizing them. It's probably not even her fault, but the earlier she becomes aware of it, the less likely she is to take this identity with her to college and beyond.
My main worry is her spiritual state... how do I impress on her the gravity of all this
This might be relevant too:
https://vimeo.com/210992814
My children are far younger so take that into account when reading my advice.
The above advice about identity is excellent.
I'd add in that at that age young adults are very romantically sentimental - they are looking for romantic love. This is natural as for most of human history people were being married in their teens. For my children I intend to have them married in their very early 20s or late teens. I think the modern practice of waiting is very problematic.
https://scepterpublishers.org/products/preparing-for-adolescence-a-planning-guide-for-parents
The above is a worthwhile book and it discusses marriage preparation and how a parent can go about it. Your daughter is at the age right now to begin marriage preparation and that can be well facilitated by some father-daughter conversations during walks in the park. Get her focused on an upcoming marriage and family life as a mother starting in the very near future - that will give her identity, goals, purpose, actions to take now, and something to look forward to.
I do not know your teen but teens in general today are in a total limbo. Bodily they are adults with adult power, but society suppresses them and infantilizes them till late 20s. Their natural romantic desires in the teen years are suppressed and marriage pushed off for a decade or more - the urges remain and are filled with all manner of immoral acts. Women who throughout history were well grounded in their identity as mothers by early 20s are still trying to figure out who they are as single women in their 30s - the same for men (each sex acts differently to this identity crisis).
As for a mother-daughter straight talk with her about the dangers of homosexual acts, I think that has a high probability of blowing up badly. I would direct her focus towards something positive, like finding Mr. Right and becoming a mother, rather than use the stick of what will be perceived as being irrational crazy fears of old people.
Apparently, I'm the only one who balks at reading a kid's journal...
Quote from: OCLittleFlower on January 02, 2018, 09:33:43 PM
Apparently, I'm the only one who balks at reading a kid's journal...
Oh, definitely not.
My mom read my journal as a kid and it messed up our relationship for years.
I guess it goes to show that homeschooling, No TV and no internet are not alone going to remove these weird perversions. Short of total isolation what more could you have done?
I think one of the smartest things my Dad did was allow pretty frank and free discussion around the dinner table. Nothing was left undiscussed. The nine of us kids had the table manners of Somali pirates but we could say anything we wanted and try to defend, or attack, any manner of idiocy we saw fit. If we talked gibberish, we'd be shot down in flames by the others, but that is the price of freedom of speech.
My brother copied this and his kids are all on the straight and narrow. The antidote to corruption is an practical understanding of corruption and there is no one better to browbeat stupid ideas out of you than your siblings. Very few people have the balls to swim against the tide.
This is one reason I don't homeschool. I want my children exposed to how miserable and confused their secular school friends are so they see a practical value to personal morality and understand that it is NOT consequence free. Growing up in a bubble has a potential downside too.
Given the world is now full of queers and Global Warming One Child family policy types, and politically correct garbage, I've recently started more salty talk at the dinner table and got the kids rowing about everything from Trump to modern music and PEDs in sports. Everytime a celebrity faggot dies of a drug overdose or comes to a sticky end we bring it up and drill down into just how debauched they were and the costs of that "lifestyle".
Because of the age we live in there are no shortage of examples to discuss. The news headlines provide a good example every few days. My 15 year old daughter is a ferocious debater who thinks on her feet. The 12 year old boy has to fight hard to keep up with her.
As for the secret diary thing, that wouldn't last a minute in our house. There are no secrets. As soon as your write it down it's public knowledge. I check browsing history, phone logs the lot.
I have never allowed them the expectation of privacy. They are my children and I own them.
Yeah, reading diaries, etc, depends on the expectations of the family. I would never sneak check a kid's browser history -- letting me see your internet history would be a condition of being allowed to use the internet in this house.
Quote from: Greg on January 03, 2018, 02:45:04 AM
I guess it goes to show that homeschooling, No TV and no internet are not alone going to remove these weird perversions. Short of total isolation what more could you have done?
I think one of the smartest things my Dad did was allow pretty frank and free discussion around the dinner table. Nothing was left undiscussed. The nine of us kids had the table manners of Somali pirates but we could say anything we wanted and try to defend, or attack, any manner of idiocy we saw fit. If we talked gibberish, we'd be shot down in flames by the others, but that is the price of freedom of speech.
My brother copied this and his kids are all on the straight and narrow. The antidote to corruption is an practical understanding of corruption and there is no one better to browbeat stupid ideas out of you than your siblings. Very few people have the balls to swim against the tide.
This is one reason I don't homeschool. I want my children exposed to how miserable and confused their secular school friends are so they see a practical value to personal morality and understand that it is NOT consequence free. Growing up in a bubble has a potential downside too.
Given the world is now full of queers and Global Warming One Child family policy types, and politically correct garbage, I've recently started more salty talk at the dinner table and got the kids rowing about everything from Trump to modern music and PEDs in sports. Everytime a celebrity faggot dies of a drug overdose or comes to a sticky end we bring it up and drill down into just how debauched they were and the costs of that "lifestyle".
Because of the age we live in there are no shortage of examples to discuss. The news headlines provide a good example every few days. My 15 year old daughter is a ferocious debater who thinks on her feet. The 12 year old boy has to fight hard to keep up with her.
As for the secret diary thing, that wouldn't last a minute in our house. There are no secrets. As soon as your write it down it's public knowledge. I check browsing history, phone logs the lot.
I have never allowed them the expectation of privacy. They are my children and I own them.
Maybe your schools are better over there, but I wouldn't put any of mine in a school, homeschool's what we'll do. But I agree with you otherwise, sheltering kids and then having them meet "the real world" I believe causes a shock greater than if they had been "gently" exposed to them at home, where there parents could guide them yet and help them through it as needed. Come to think of it, Charles Dickens didn't shelter his readers, and nobody cries about protecting us from Dickens (gasp!).
Quote from: OCLittleFlower on January 04, 2018, 04:07:42 PM
Yeah, reading diaries, etc, depends on the expectations of the family. I would never sneak check a kid's browser history -- letting me see your internet history would be a condition of being allowed to use the internet in this house.
Well the conditions of this house, are that I am an absolute ruler. So there is never such a thing as a "sneak check". The above implies that their right to privacy is greater than my right to check up on them. It's not their internet history it is MY internet history, because I am paying for it.
Why should I give them a right that Mark Zuckerberg, their own school and .gov don't give them?
If you think that's unreasoanable consider that God reads your thoughts. You have no privacy from God even in the recesses of your own mind. That's worse than North Korea.
Quote from: Greg on January 05, 2018, 02:02:09 AM
Quote from: OCLittleFlower on January 04, 2018, 04:07:42 PM
Yeah, reading diaries, etc, depends on the expectations of the family. I would never sneak check a kid's browser history -- letting me see your internet history would be a condition of being allowed to use the internet in this house.
Well the conditions of this house, are that I am an absolute ruler. So there is never such a thing as a "sneak check". The above implies that their right to privacy is greater than my right to check up on them. It's not their internet history it is MY internet history, because I am paying for it.
Why should I give them a right that Mark Zuckerberg, their own school and .gov don't give them?
If you think that's unreasoanable consider that God reads your thoughts. You have no privacy from God even in the recesses of your own mind. That's worse than North Korea.
I hear you. It's just that a kid's first internet device in this house will come with being TOLD that we will look. I don't think it's fair to say nothing and then check. The ground rules will be laid down and if you don't want to live by those rules, fine -- no use of my wifi, fine with me.
Life isn't fair. The sooner they learn that, and can cope with randomness, good luck, bad luck the happier and more successful they will be.
The last thing the world needs right now is more young people insisting on their "rights".
Nothing knocks bs out of you quicker than your siblings 😀😀
We were regularly called morons by each other and told we were adopted. ...and you daren'the keep a diary or one of them would throw out at the dinner table what you wrote and make you the laughing stock.. family is the first boxing ring of life
Thank you all for the advice, i spoke with my daughter and it seems like the original issue has been taken care of however there's another issue I need help with. My daughter told me that she's depressed because we have decided to have her do online school this year (she was formerly at a NO Catholic school) and we have prohibited her from seeing her former friends who we thought were bad influences (non Catholics/or not practicing Catholics, with unrestricted internet usage etc..). We don't really have a close trad community here and she often feels like she doesn't belong when she's around other families at our Church because she likes to discuss things like kids tv shows or popular tween/teen music and usually they are more sheltered so they really have nothing in common.
How do I best handle this? Should I let her hang out with her former friends again under a strict supervision?
Here's an option that works well for some people:
Search for alternative hobbies to watching TV and get her involved in that. There's almost always something that excites a kid more than a TV show if the parents provide the opportunity. My own family conspired to sign us up in a Saturday morning bowling league which coincidentally conflicted with Saturday morning cartoons. Naturally, we forgot all about cartoons with the prospect of weekly bowling. Nobody ever banned us from TV but after being away from it so long and experiencing some real life fun, we never touched the power button again.
Then she won't want to talk TV shows with other kids and can move onto broader topics.
Have to say, I agree with your daughter. Plenty of Trad children are very dull and have strange personalities and poor social skills. People have to be allowed to make their own friends. Can't be forced.
Typically, you will make friends with people who have similar hobbies and interests to you. Girls typically need more friends than boys.
As for the bad influence thing, it's important to be consistent and honest with yourself here. A few weeks ago your daughter was dabbling with the idea of being a lesbian. What would other homeschooling parents make of that? Restrict teenagers and they often just hanker after that thing more.
My twelve year old is planning to start a fight with a boy at school next week who is talking about him behind his back. To some people that would make him a bad influence. But I encourage boys to fight while it is still not illegal. Violence is a great problem solver.
My method is to build their personalities up so they are stubborn and think and do what they want and then resist things they know are stupid or bad and live or die by their own mistakes. In short, I take calculated risks because the alternative is mollycoddling someone sheltered who I would later despise for being a useless fool.
Sure one of the kids might die from some risky activity, but at least I will have 5 competent ones left. Better that, than 6 useless vegetables who cannot function in the real world because they fear a boogeyman around every corner.
If a child respects the parents as authority figures and admires them as role models he desires to emulate, then it will matter little who his friends are. But if the parents are just "mom & dad" who house and feed them, and little more than that, then the child lacks role models and will find them in celebrity & friends. If this is the case then it matters quite dearly who the friends are, but at this stage it'd be likely impossible to bar a teenager from seeing lousy friends, since the teen already does not much admire the parents and their input. Teenagers are looking for lives to emulate, and if family members do not provide it, then friends and media will.
Since TV has been mentioned - I threw out my TV.
QuoteMy twelve year old is planning to start a fight with a boy at school next week who is talking about him behind his back. To some people that would make him a bad influence. But I encourage boys to fight while it is still not illegal. Violence is a great problem solver.
LOL. When I went to school we had a fighting place off of school property where you'd go to have a fist fight. We had rules. Each fighter had a second who would prevent anyone from jumping in and could stop the fight once it was obvious who the winner was. Parents just accepted it as normal.
Note to parents: talk to your boy before he fights. Tell him you might get called down to the school and you will have to rip him a new one in front of the school admins, but it will be complete BS. "I'm disappointed in you (for not stomping his guts in the ground better). Happened with my boy, but I was not called in. His coach broke up the fight and told the boys if they had that much energy, they could run some laps. The coach didn't report the fight. Old school dude.
TandJ, it's a little late for your oldest, but look for ballet classes for the younger girls. Look for an old battle axe ballet instructor. Gives the girls something to do. Also, see if any of the Catholic youth groups have swing dancing. Needs to be chaperoned, which is usually the case.
QuoteNote to parents: talk to your boy before he fights. Tell him you might get called down to the school and you will have to rip him a new one in front of the school admins, but it will be complete BS. "I'm disappointed in you (for not stomping his guts in the ground better). Happened with my boy, but I was not called in. His coach broke up the fight and told the boys if they had that much energy, they could run some laps. The coach didn't report the fight. Old school dude.
P.S. to parents: Find a boxing or MMA gym and at the very least see to it that your boy can throw a decent cross. The male of the human species naturally loves the idea of fighting, but damn few enjoy being hit. As a result, most "fights" end the second a clean shot lands. It sounds odd to the modern world, but training to use your body violently almost always reduces the actual incidences of violence.
I give Maxim prize money.
There will be a war in the future (there are always wars) and he has Russian and British nationalities.
Which ever side he chooses to fight for I want him to win.