Do you wash your hands before you pray?

Started by St. Columba, February 11, 2019, 07:39:53 PM

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St. Columba

I was wondering if anyone else here did this....thanks!

(I haven't researched this....but the practice seems like a primitive impulse)
People don't have ideas...ideas have people.  - Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung

Non Nobis

No.  I can see the idea; you might see it as accompanying  spiritual preparation to pray (purifying yourself). Just don't become "OCDish"...

And ideally we should be praying at various times during the day, not only formally. Sometimes people offer a quick prayer in the middle of whatever they are doing. Your hands might get a little dried out!
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!

St. Columba

Why do priests wash their hands before mass?  What is the spiritual significance, if any?
People don't have ideas...ideas have people.  - Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung

St. Columba

Quote from: Non Nobis on February 11, 2019, 09:20:23 PM
No.  I can see the idea; you might see it as accompanying  spiritual preparation to pray (purifying yourself). Just don't become "OCDish"...

And ideally we should be praying at various times during the day, not only formally. Sometimes people offer a quick prayer in the middle of whatever they are doing. Your hands might get a little dried out!

Thanks NN....no, no, it is not OCDish...I usually just do it once a day, before my main prayer block.  Brings a sense of formality and reverence to the proceedings, I suppose.  Frankly, I am not sure why I do it....it just seems right....like I said, a primitive impulse....I also don't like to pray in shorts or pajamas during my formal prayer.

Thanks Non Nobis!   :)
People don't have ideas...ideas have people.  - Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung

aquinas138

The impulse to ablutions or similar practices before prayer is a pretty common one across cultures. The Russian Old Believer prayerbooks direct the Christian to wash his hands and face before beginning morning prayers. They also use a small cushion called podruchnik that they put in front of them so that when they do prostrations, they keep their foreheads and hands clean. There is a Malankara Orthodox parish near me; in their tradition, you are supposed to remove your shoes before entering the nave. In Coptic Orthodoxy, clergy who enter the sanctuary do not wear shoes, and those who are receiving Communion remove their shoes before approaching to commune. These of course hearken back to several biblical instances of removing shoes on holy ground.

ETA: I imagine the bishop's liturgical shoes are connected with such ideas.
What shall we call you, O full of grace? * Heaven? for you have shone forth the Sun of Righteousness. * Paradise? for you have brought forth the Flower of immortality. * Virgin? for you have remained incorrupt. * Pure Mother? for you have held in your holy embrace your Son, the God of all. * Entreat Him to save our souls.

Vetus Ordo

Quote from: aquinas138 on February 12, 2019, 11:38:03 AM
The impulse to ablutions or similar practices before prayer is a pretty common one across cultures. The Russian Old Believer prayerbooks direct the Christian to wash his hands and face before beginning morning prayers. They also use a small cushion called podruchnik that they put in front of them so that when they do prostrations, they keep their foreheads and hands clean. There is a Malankara Orthodox parish near me; in their tradition, you are supposed to remove your shoes before entering the nave. In Coptic Orthodoxy, clergy who enter the sanctuary do not wear shoes, and those who are receiving Communion remove their shoes before approaching to commune. These of course hearken back to several biblical instances of removing shoes on holy ground.

ETA: I imagine the bishop's liturgical shoes are connected with such ideas.

Ritual ablutions are fairly common across the spectrum, as you have already pointed out. Islam, for instance, carried this old Semitic (and biblical) practice into their canonical daily prayers: Muslims have to perform ablutions of their hands, face, arms, head and feet so that they may be ritually clean before offering their prayers.

In the Western Church, the priest performs the familiar ablutions of his hands before vesting for Mass, at the Offertory and after Holy Communion. There are, of course, other forms of symbolic ablutions that survived down to our time such as the Asperges before Sunday Mass or the now largely forgotten custom of the churching of women, present only in traditional circles, in some Protestant churches and in the East.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

St. Columba

#6
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on February 12, 2019, 07:10:54 PM
Quote from: aquinas138 on February 12, 2019, 11:38:03 AM
The impulse to ablutions or similar practices before prayer is a pretty common one across cultures. The Russian Old Believer prayerbooks direct the Christian to wash his hands and face before beginning morning prayers. They also use a small cushion called podruchnik that they put in front of them so that when they do prostrations, they keep their foreheads and hands clean. There is a Malankara Orthodox parish near me; in their tradition, you are supposed to remove your shoes before entering the nave. In Coptic Orthodoxy, clergy who enter the sanctuary do not wear shoes, and those who are receiving Communion remove their shoes before approaching to commune. These of course hearken back to several biblical instances of removing shoes on holy ground.

ETA: I imagine the bishop's liturgical shoes are connected with such ideas.

Ritual ablutions are fairly common across the spectrum, as you have already pointed out. Islam, for instance, carried this old Semitic (and biblical) practice into their canonical daily prayers: Muslims have to perform ablutions of their hands, face, arms, head and feet so that they may be ritually clean before offering their prayers.

In the Western Church, the priest performs the familiar ablutions of his hands before vesting for Mass, at the Offertory and after Holy Communion. There are, of course, other forms of symbolic ablutions that survived down to our time such as the Asperges before Sunday Mass or the now largely forgotten custom of the churching of women, present only in traditional circles, in some Protestant churches and in the East.

Given that ablutions, in one manifestation or another, are so ubiquitous in religion, is there anything to the idea that the practice might somehow be embedded in the human fabric, psychological or otherwise?  I used the words, "primitive impulse" above, because that is how I am perceiving it: it summons almost "naturally", without my even thinking about it.

Perhaps a bit out there, but could God have commanded Adam and Eve to wash themselves before they interacted with Him? ..sort of part of the adamic dispensation?

Thank you all!
People don't have ideas...ideas have people.  - Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung

Sempronius

My muslim childhood friend said that they must wash themselves after fornication, or else they will get attacked by demons.

Vetus Ordo

Quote from: Sempronius on February 13, 2019, 01:24:27 PM
My muslim childhood friend said that they must wash themselves after fornication, or else they will get attacked by demons.

What your Muslim friend wanted to say is that they have to perform a ritual bath called ghusl after sexual intercourse with their wives, since sexual intercourse nullifies one's ablution.

After fornication they would have to be publicly flogged instead, not simply washed, since fornication is a major sin in Islam.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

aquinas138

Quote from: St. Columba on February 13, 2019, 01:06:59 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on February 12, 2019, 07:10:54 PM
Quote from: aquinas138 on February 12, 2019, 11:38:03 AM
The impulse to ablutions or similar practices before prayer is a pretty common one across cultures. The Russian Old Believer prayerbooks direct the Christian to wash his hands and face before beginning morning prayers. They also use a small cushion called podruchnik that they put in front of them so that when they do prostrations, they keep their foreheads and hands clean. There is a Malankara Orthodox parish near me; in their tradition, you are supposed to remove your shoes before entering the nave. In Coptic Orthodoxy, clergy who enter the sanctuary do not wear shoes, and those who are receiving Communion remove their shoes before approaching to commune. These of course hearken back to several biblical instances of removing shoes on holy ground.

ETA: I imagine the bishop's liturgical shoes are connected with such ideas.

Ritual ablutions are fairly common across the spectrum, as you have already pointed out. Islam, for instance, carried this old Semitic (and biblical) practice into their canonical daily prayers: Muslims have to perform ablutions of their hands, face, arms, head and feet so that they may be ritually clean before offering their prayers.

In the Western Church, the priest performs the familiar ablutions of his hands before vesting for Mass, at the Offertory and after Holy Communion. There are, of course, other forms of symbolic ablutions that survived down to our time such as the Asperges before Sunday Mass or the now largely forgotten custom of the churching of women, present only in traditional circles, in some Protestant churches and in the East.

Given that ablutions, in one manifestation or another, are so ubiquitous in religion, is there anything to the idea that the practice might somehow be embedded in the human fabric, psychological or otherwise?  I used the words, "primitive impulse" above, because that is how I am perceiving it: it summons almost "naturally", without my even thinking about it.

Perhaps a bit out there, but could God have commanded Adam and Eve to wash themselves before they interacted with Him? ..sort of part of the adamic dispensation?

Thank you all!

I think that's possible; it certainly seems like an "embedded" idea to be clean before contact with deity.
What shall we call you, O full of grace? * Heaven? for you have shone forth the Sun of Righteousness. * Paradise? for you have brought forth the Flower of immortality. * Virgin? for you have remained incorrupt. * Pure Mother? for you have held in your holy embrace your Son, the God of all. * Entreat Him to save our souls.