Traditio Custodes and the Sunday Obligation

[trentcath]

I still don't know what we would do. My husband and I are at a bit of a stalemate: I won't go back to the NO without kicking and screaming, and he won't go to the SSPX because he views them as schismatic (and yes, he's seen debates and the Lefebvre documentary; he remains unconvinced).

Even if a group of TLM-goers were to suddenly show up at the local NO and gradually take over the music ministry/parish council/finance council/etc., I doubt it would be good for most of the souls involved. The more I look at the NO (having attended the TLM almost exclusively for over a year), the more I think it was a failed experiment.

Re: the bold.

This is very simple to resolve. Does he or does he not consider their marriages and confessions as valid prior to the actions of Francis extending universal faculties to them?

If not, then they cannot be in schism since it's an issue of faculties which only CATHOLIC clergy are subject to.

If so, then it begs the question on how or why a putative pope can even remotely extend signs of communion to a group in schism.

He doesn't get to have it both ways. They are either in schism or not. And if so, their marriages and confessions are valid sacraments.

I won't get into the issue of supplied jurisdiction etc., as that's more convoluted.

But it's a fact that schismatic groups such as the Orthodox are recognized as having valid confessions and marriages.

So he gets to choose from reality. He doesn't get to choose from the 1990's era of FSSP-pushed boogeymen that are made up fantasy where they get to have their cake and eat it too.

He'll admit that their sacraments are valid, but not licit. They're not in communion with Rome. He said it's just like how going to an Orthodox liturgy when there's a Catholic church next door would not fulfill your Sunday obligation. He doesn't want to be out of communion with the visible Church: ubi Petrus est and all.

Ultimately, I guess this is something you'd need to discuss with your priest and your husband. I think there are some issues here about the marital relationship, separate to those of whether you should attend the SSPX or not, which we aren't competent to answer. For example, even if you aren't supposed to attend the NO would it be licit to do so in order to attend with your husband, if it caused strife between you, in order to have a good example for any children etc... etc... Also, frankly, unless this problem actually arises I wouldn't worry about it (sorry if I'm being Blase). 

[GiftOfGod]

if the TLM is "canceled," who here will go to the N.O., or who will just not go at all?

I don't know but I will be watching to see how many FSSPers, ICKSPers, and Indulterers will follow Francis down his path to Hell. We'll see if those who offer endless cant about "obedience to Francis" and "Communion with Rome" will put their money (souls) where their mouths are.


I wish Fr. Cekada (RIP) was here to comment on this rapidly changing time (and defining moment) in traditional Catholicism. This is, no joke, a serious time where traditional Catholicism will be largely killed-off (if trads opt to become "conservative NOers) or completely split from union with Francis and his successors (if they go sede or SSPX).

My life goal is to get a job that I can afford the move to St Mary's, because when I marry that's where I'd want my kids educated. So I'm not even worried about what I would do.

I suggest that you take some trips, maybe spend a summer there first. It's not all that it's cracked up to be due to overcrowding of trads and the lack of good paying jobs. I have heard this firsthand from some single male trads that moved there before moving back to Bay Area. They were better off making more money here, living with family, and saving, than breaking their backs at some non-union factory and being poor.

I'm relatively lucky in that the NO Im forced to go to is "by the books" so in Latin and Ad Orientem...

Before you or your family ever attend a NO again, you should read The Great Sacrilege by Fr. James F. Wathen, O.S.J. (RIP). If you still need convincing that the NO is one of the most evil things to happen in the history of the Church, read Work of Human Hands: A Theological Critique of the Mass of Paul VI by Fr. Cekada (RIP).

[Prayerful]

if the TLM is "canceled," who here will go to the N.O., or who will just not go at all?

I don't know but I will be watching to see how many FSSPers, ICKSPers, and Indulterers will follow Francis down his path to Hell. We'll see if those who offer endless cant about "obedience to Francis" and "Communion with Rome" will put their money (souls) where their mouths are.


I wish Fr. Cekada (RIP) was here to comment on this rapidly changing time (and defining moment) in traditional Catholicism. This is, no joke, a serious time where traditional Catholicism will be largely killed-off (if trads opt to become "conservative NOers) or completely split from union with Francis and his successors (if they go sede or SSPX).

My life goal is to get a job that I can afford the move to St Mary's, because when I marry that's where I'd want my kids educated. So I'm not even worried about what I would do.

I suggest that you take some trips, maybe spend a summer there first. It's not all that it's cracked up to be due to overcrowding of trads and the lack of good paying jobs. I have heard this firsthand from some single male trads that moved there before moving back to Bay Area. They were better off making more money here, living with family, and saving, than breaking their backs at some non-union factory and being poor.

I'm relatively lucky in that the NO Im forced to go to is "by the books" so in Latin and Ad Orientem...

Before you or your family ever attend a NO again, you should read The Great Sacrilege by Fr. James F. Wathen, O.S.J. (RIP). If you still need convincing that the NO is one of the most evil things to happen in the history of the Church, read Work of Human Hands: A Theological Critique of the Mass of Paul VI by Fr. Cekada (RIP).

Fr Cekada RIP did much good with writing and music, but he promoted the Guérard des Lauriers non una cum cultic nonsense, which even a glance at any old missal or prayerbook would expose. After the Pope and bishop, the Sovereign would be noted, and this Sovereign could be Queen Elizabeth whose magistrates could hang the priest offering the Sarum or Roman Rite that very week. It should also be noted that Fr Wathen RIP was no sede, and wrote against it (for example). Fr considered it this Pope sifting ultra vires, when it is a matter for Christ. Fr Wathen would probably be called 'Feeneyite' (a contrived term and a phantom) by some of them, although none of them can even begin to compare to this great priest.

[GiftOfGod]

Fr Cekada RIP did much good with writing and music, but he promoted the Guérard des Lauriers non una cum cultic nonsense, which even a glance at any old missal or prayerbook would expose. After the Pope and bishop, the Sovereign would be noted, and this Sovereign could be Queen Elizabeth whose magistrates could hang the priest offering the Sarum or Roman Rite that very week. It should also be noted that Fr Wathen RIP was no sede, and wrote against it (for example). Fr considered it this Pope sifting ultra vires, when it is a matter for Christ. Fr Wathen would probably be called 'Feeneyite' (a contrived term and a phantom) by some of them, although none of them can even begin to compare to this great priest.

But do you have anything to say about their criticisms of the Novus Ordo Missae as presented in the books I mentioned?