Author Topic: Providence, These Times, and the Internet  (Read 4726 times)

Offline Mithrandylan

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Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« on: March 15, 2013, 12:40:55 AM »
Lately I've been thinking about how it's certainly no coincidence that this is the age of the internet.

The generation that lived through the changes is dying.  Those who stayed true to the faith remember their parishes having the altars ripped out and when the nuns started to wear short skirts (or pants) and when Fr Smith became Fr Joe and his sermons stopped being about Hell and started being about the Easter Bunny, when the prayers at the foot of the altar disappeared and everything else.  These are fresh memories for them, they need not be reminded of them-- many of them lost their own children to the poisonous 'Catholic' schools that taught their children that being Catholic was just another 'option' and eventually those kids grew up and saw that there were more convenient options, and now many of them are divorced and re-married and if they attend church at all, it's probably out of obligation to their family at Christmas and Easter.  And their children will be raised the same way.  The old timers don't need to be reminded.

But-- this generation, and even our parents DO.  We didn't live through the changes, and what we know about them is academic.  Many of us found Tradition through the internet, and have used internet resources to better our faith.  I never would have known what the Divine Office is without the internet, and I wouldn't pray it every day without divinumofficium.com (plug!).  We wouldn't have a way to communicate with other trads because let's face it, there aren't many.  We wouldn't have great apologetic sites to sharpen our understanding of the faith.  I prefer books over anything, but who can afford all the books?  There's so much richness to the faith, and so much of it is online.  Denzinger, Ott, Baltimore Catechism, Catechism of Trent, great and orthodox encyclices like Pascendi, Mystici Corporis and The Syllabus.  Would we even know these existed without the internet?  Would we be able to find sound commentary like Fr Haydock or Lapide?  What about the Summa?  The whole thing, all parts are online-- free.  There are even live (or non-live, but nevertheless) streaming broadcasts of the TLM for people who can't go.  Orthodox and Traditional sermons by holy priests.

I think that it's no coincidence that God chose this to be the internet age.  In the time of great Apostasy, the information needed to keep and defend the faith is there, and it's just a click away.  Similarly, mortal sin and damnation is also a click away.  So obviously we must be vigilant, watchful and sober.  The internet is a tool, not a whole lot different in principle than a book.  It all depends what one is reading/looking at. 

God planned this well.  Let's all be grateful for the great Catholic information on the internet.  Things could have just as easily not transpired this way. 
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 01:03:50 AM »
I thought Protestantism was the religion that required literacy on the part of the lay faithful. Isn't it ironic how things seem to have turned around? Catholicism could very well dispense with these things and that's why it was more successful when it came to evangelisation. At least, that was Someone's theory as far as I can remember it. He can correct me if I remember it wrongly.

In my opinion, if there's something that the internet has brought anew is a sense of unprecedented scrutiny on the actions of the Roman ecclesiastical hierarchy, and of any religious or political institution for that matter.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline Mithrandylan

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 01:13:04 AM »
I thought Protestantism was the religion that required literacy on the part of the lay faithful. Isn't it ironic how things seem to have turned around? Catholicism could very well dispense with these things and that's why it was more successful when it came to evangelisation. At least, that was Someone's theory as far as I can remember it. He can correct me if I remember it wrongly.

In my opinion, if there's something that the internet has brought anew is a sense of unprecedented scrutiny on the actions of the Roman ecclesiastical hierarchy, and of any religious or political institution for that matter.

Require, no.  Enrich and instruct in faith, yes.  We're talking about a plethora of primary sources here, not just blogs and opinions. 

What Someone has always said, I agree with.  A simple peasant can hold the Catholic faith, true and unadulterated.  I am not saying the internet has replaced the magesterium or anything near that.  I am simply saying that it is a wonderful tool delegated to these times to aid the faithful when they may not have recourse to a traditional and orthodox priest.
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 01:20:37 AM »
I am not saying the internet has replaced the magesterium or anything near that.  I am simply saying that it is a wonderful tool delegated to these times to aid the faithful when they may not have recourse to a traditional and orthodox priest.

The minute one's faith is formed and nourished by the information one reads on the internet; be it e-books, apologetic sites, trad reviews, forums, etc.; one has essentially replaced the bishop and the priest with lay teachers. The clergy has been reduced to a sacrament provider: when it comes to convictions of faith, one has recourse to one's reading material and private judgement.

It's just a curious turn of events.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline Mithrandylan

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 01:25:34 AM »
I am not saying the internet has replaced the magesterium or anything near that.  I am simply saying that it is a wonderful tool delegated to these times to aid the faithful when they may not have recourse to a traditional and orthodox priest.

The minute one's faith is formed and nourished by the information one reads on the internet; be it e-books, apologetic sites, trad reviews, forums, etc.; one has essentially replaced the bishop and the priest with lay teachers. The clergy has been reduced to a sacrament provider: when it comes to convictions of faith, one has recourse to one's reading material and private judgement.

It's just a curious turn of events.

That is certain nonsense.  While I see value in the camaraderie and discussion found in forums, I am talking about enriching one's faith by reading the works of the popes, bishops, saints and theologians.  And you know this is what I'm talking about because this is the second time I'm stating it.  You do not believe it, but don't pretend that it's somehow an anti-Catholic principle that I'm laying forth.
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 01:30:07 AM »
That is certain nonsense.  While I see value in the camaraderie and discussion found in forums, I am talking about enriching one's faith by reading the works of the popes, bishops, saints and theologians.  And you know this is what I'm talking about because this is the second time I'm stating it.  You do not believe it, but don't pretend that it's somehow an anti-Catholic principle that I'm laying forth.

Reading the works of popes, at least pre-vatican II popes, saints, theologians, etc. is not an anti-Catholic principle. But laymen were supposed to be taught by their pastors who filtered all that material for them. The interesting turn of events is the absence of the pastor, or the uselessness of him as a teacher, and how that has shaped modern Catholicism.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline Someone1776

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 06:32:03 AM »
Your theory predisposes that God's chosen people are middle-class Americans and he has forsaken the illiterate who make up most of the world and historically most of the faithful.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 08:04:57 AM »
Your theory predisposes that God's chosen people are middle-class Americans and he has forsaken the illiterate who make up most of the world and historically most of the faithful.

Are you speaking of Traditional Catholicism?

I don't have any theory concerning the identity and extent of God's elect.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline Innocent Smith

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 10:46:46 AM »
Your theory predisposes that God's chosen people are middle-class Americans and he has forsaken the illiterate who make up most of the world and historically most of the faithful.

Different people in different classes have different needs. I believe that Mr. Mithrandylan is correct in his ideas concerning the internet. It is true that the most simple can understand the Mass. But it is no longer there as it was meant to be for everyone except those who make great efforts to attend it.

And it is true that those encyclicals were designed to be trickled down from bishops to the flock. But they aren't doing that anymore. Haven't for quite awhile.

And it is no real phenomena, Mr. Vetus Ordo. What happened is that the immigrant Church here in America traded down. They got a bigger yard, sometimes a nicer house, but they lost their Faith. Not that they made a conscious choice in the matter. They also received the benefit of an education and some can read at higher levels.

Whereas their parents, or maybe grandparents, might not have been able to afford a Missal, let alone read one.

That is another reason that the laity were not always encouraged to read Scripture. And we must always be careful, but you can't go wrong with the lessons in the Breviary. And multiple other sources.

Seems to me that the Traditional Movement is in large part an intellectual exercise in which the false philosophies that may have been adopted or entertained by a majority of the unclean, yet not part of the "great unwashed", have returned to the One True Faith.

These people have seen that Modernism is Death. Enjoy them. Because they will not be around forever either as standards in education are going down to levels of nonexistence. But, they have their children.

And they, as Mr. Mithrandylan states, will hopefully still have the internet.
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.
 

Offline Gerard

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 11:51:28 AM »
Well..we've got real priests and real bishops who for years have been making recordings, making videos and writings books (the latter for multiple centuries) that were designed for the average faithful. 

You want to learn a good catechism?  You can listen to Sheen, you can read the Catechisms authored by or with the approval of ordained saints (Borromeo, Pius X, John Neumann etc.)

You lose your good priest?  He may be broadcasting his sermons.  So you listen to 2 sermons each week, one at mass that might not be good (or it might be) and another by someone you've really gained a lot from.

You can e-mail and write to priests who are specialists in questions you have.  You can get council. 

Bishop Sheen, Malachi Martin, Fr. Vincent Micelli, they are all still benefiting people with their priesthood..long after they have gone to stand before the judgement seat of God. 

 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 11:52:13 AM »
Your theory predisposes that God's chosen people are middle-class Americans and he has forsaken the illiterate who make up most of the world and historically most of the faithful.

That doesn't hold because there are plenty of poor, very poor, trads in Mexico, Nigeria, and the Philippines, for example.
 

Offline Mithrandylan

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 01:12:20 PM »
Your theory predisposes that God's chosen people are middle-class Americans and he has forsaken the illiterate who make up most of the world and historically most of the faithful.

It does not. 
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-
 

Offline angelcookie

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 03:33:37 PM »
If it were not for the Internet I wouldn't know much about my own faith if left in the hands of the local NO Catholic Church. Just how things roll now I guess. I certainly would have never found a tlm, or even the SSPX. All by google search. Oh and of course info on FE.
The internet forums for trad Catholics have eased the sense of aloneness.
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: Providence, These Times, and the Internet
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 06:51:35 AM »
I am not saying the internet has replaced the magesterium or anything near that.  I am simply saying that it is a wonderful tool delegated to these times to aid the faithful when they may not have recourse to a traditional and orthodox priest.

The minute one's faith is formed and nourished by the information one reads on the internet; be it e-books, apologetic sites, trad reviews, forums, etc.; one has essentially replaced the bishop and the priest with lay teachers. The clergy has been reduced to a sacrament provider: when it comes to convictions of faith, one has recourse to one's reading material and private judgement.

It's just a curious turn of events.

Stop the subtle hits on traditionalism.  How many times do you need to be warned about this? 
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.