Author Topic: SSPX and Anti-semitism  (Read 30669 times)

Offline Jayne

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SSPX and Anti-semitism
« on: February 12, 2013, 12:37:00 PM »
While I have some areas of disagreement with the SSPX, one area in which I agree with them is their position on Judaism.  In my experience, they did a really good job of getting the right balance between rejecting the current trend of catering to emotional blackmail of the ADL while not embracing anything actually anti-semitic.  My impression is that their attitude to Jews is based on praying for their conversion.

I find it ironic that they get accused of anti-semitism so often, since they are probably among the people who handle this topic the best.   
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Offline Bonaventure

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 01:58:17 PM »
Yeah, I would agree. Archbishop Lefebvre's dad died at the hands of the NSDAP.
 

Offline OCLittleFlower

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 02:23:10 PM »
NSDAP?
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Offline Christknight104

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 02:55:43 PM »
NSDAP?

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei(NSDAP) or National Socialist German Workers' Party , which is the official name of the Nazi Party. The word "Nazi" itself is a shortcut for the word "Nationalsozialistische," which means National Socialist.

 

Offline Ben

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 03:29:15 PM »
The SSPX of Bishop Williamson and Archbishop Lefebvre was hijacked by the SSPX of Fellay and the Zionist Krah. The SSPX of Lefebvre and Williamson does a good job dealing with Jews.

There are lots of people who don't like Jews. But I don't know of anyone who dislikes semites. Hence, the problem any thinking person has with the term "anti-semite."
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2013, 04:24:55 PM »
Ben raises a good point about the term "anti-semite."  As far as I can tell, it was introduced by Jews as a means of social manipulation.  It is not meant to lead to clarity.  What I really want to talk about is Jew-hating and I should say so.

One of my fondest memories of the SSPX is my first meeting with Fr. Scott.  I had been moved by things I had read online to realize the importance of praying for the conversion of Jews and having Masses said for this intention.  I think that most people here will understand why I went to my nearest SSPX chapel to arrange for a Mass, rather than elsewhere.

I remember very few details about what was actually said.  The reason it made such an impact on me was its emotional content.  Father just seemed so happy that I am Catholic.  This was important because of my previous experiences.  I have several annoying characteristics and tend to express opinions that others find objectionable.  This has provided me many opportunities to observe people who dislike me for these reasons.  I think that I can recognize the phenomenon quite well now.  Every once in a while I encounter a person who dislikes me, not for myself, but for my Jewish ancestry. These are people who hate Jews.  A pattern that I have noticed is that these people deny that I am really Catholic. 

It has become a sort of litmus test I use.  People who have the proper Catholic attitude to Judaism rejoice when they learn that I am a convert from Judaism.  People who hate Jews deny the sincerity of my conversion.  So when Father Scott seemed so happy about my conversion it had a lot of significance to me.  (If anyone here knows him or has heard him preach you may have noitced that he has this way of radiating joy.  It is very moving.)

I have subsequently read things from the SSPX on the issue that made a lot of sense, so there is an intellectual component to my belief that the Society handles this well.  But I think that it all goes back to this positive first impression.
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Offline Ben

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 05:15:34 PM »
Quote
"Being anti-Jewish is not an important part of Catholicism.  It is a form of bigotry and Catholicism is much better off without it."

"Being anti-Jewish is not part of Catholicism at all.  To try to add it to Catholicism is a form of syncretism."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3452856.0.html

You have zero credibility.

That thread highlights your fraudulence, and Vox's as well.

Every single Church Father, Doctor and Saint is anti-Jewish.

Chutzpah.

You really are a cartoon character. It mystifies me why anyone would take you seriously.
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 05:22:36 PM »
Can we keep this discussion a little more charitable?

She's a human being, a wife, a mother, and a fellow Catholic. Not a cartoon character.
 

Offline Ben

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 05:28:41 PM »
She's like some ghastly character in a Dickens novel.

I'm going to be wearing diapers in a few years. Where's the charity for me?



 

Offline Jayne

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 05:30:02 PM »
It is difficult to use terminology in a clear way concerning this topic.  Being anti-Jewish, in the sense of hating Jews, is not part of Catholicism. I stand by that. Being anti-Jewish, in the sense of opposing a false religion, is part of Catholicism. 

Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
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Offline Bonaventure

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 05:31:03 PM »
She's like some ghastly character in a Dickens novel.

I'm going to be wearing diapers in a few years. Where's the charity for me?

Just cut it out.
 

Offline Archer

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 05:37:36 PM »
Not a cartoon character.

But your avatar is.   :grin:

Right, just injecting a little humor into the thread.  Carry on. 
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Offline Ben

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 05:38:00 PM »
It is difficult to use terminology in a clear way concerning this topic. 

It's not difficult at all to anyone who has a Sensus Catholicus.

Quote
Being anti-Jewish, in the sense of hating Jews, is not part of Catholicism. I stand by that.

As if anyone in the entire history of the Church has said that we should hate Jews. Not much of a stand, since there's no opposition.

Quote
Being anti-Jewish, in the sense of opposing a false religion, is part of Catholicism.

Yep! And every single Jewish individual who hasn't converted to the Church, including family members. I have a Jew and a couple Muslims in my family. Also some Freemasons and Prots and atheists. They're all my enemies. And I'm their enemy.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2013, 06:05:17 PM »
Yep! And every single Jewish individual who hasn't converted to the Church, including family members. I have a Jew and a couple Muslims in my family. Also some Freemasons and Prots and atheists. They're all my enemies. And I'm their enemy.

This is true when understood properly.  When speaking to non-Catholics (or even poorly formed Catholics) who are not likely to understand what this means, it is not prudent to say this.
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: SSPX and Anti-semitism
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 06:47:30 PM »
Why, of all topics, are you posting this, Jayne? It appears to me that you are not interested in discussion, but have taken the time to elucidate on a topic that you know will raise others' hackles all the while making you appear to be the great bridge builder you think you are. I furthermore score this as an attempt to subtly weasel your way back into the hoi polloi here. This poster is not fooled.
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