Little Russia

Started by Goldfinch, February 22, 2022, 05:07:55 PM

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Goldfinch

Crash course on the territorial development of Little Russia, i.e., Ukraine, since the 17th century:







The 1904 map showing boundaries of Little Russia (Ukraine) and South Russia.
"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great

mikemac

In the 10th to 11th centuries, Kievan Rus' became one of the largest and most prosperous states in Europe. ... The Novgorod Republic and Vladimir-Suzdal, two regions on the periphery of Kiev, established the basis for the modern Russian nation.  Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia

This map shows the approximate boundaries of Kievan Rus in the mid eleventh century.



I am not trying to show reason for Russia to invade Ukraine.  I'm just showing that Kiev was a part of Russia from it's beginning.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

MaximGun

Great maps Goldfinch, thanks,

King Wenceslas

#3
A history lesson for approval of naked aggression across an international recognized border. Pining away for the return of the Soviet Union? Stick around you just might see its return during the next three years.

This type of reasoning the US would have to return Southwestern US to Mexico. Anyone up to that challenge?

Goldfinch

#4
Quote from: King Wenceslas on February 23, 2022, 04:10:19 PMA history lesson for approval of naked aggression across an international recognized border. Pining away for the return of the Soviet Union? Stick around you just might see its return during the next three years.

A very concise history lesson for those who think that the Ukraine is something other than Russia. Kiev has been a center of Rusdom for centuries before Moscow.

"Naked aggression across an international recognized border" is an emotionally charged description of the history of mankind.

QuoteThis type of reasoning the US would have to return Southwestern US to Mexico. Anyone up to that challenge?

Have you visited the Southwest lately? I think it's a done deal.
"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great

mikemac

Any Ukrainian remembering the Holodomor would have very good reason not to want to be under the influence of Russian control ever again.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

Prayerful

The experience of Holmodor resulted in widespread support for German sponsored military formations in WW2, even if the Germans could be grudging and sometimes hostile. Most of it was earlier part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Their legacy can be seen in baroque or neo classical Greek Catholic churches built by this or that Hetman or Polish nobleman. Crimea was Roman and before that Greek. The Pontic Greeks were like the Tatar of Crimea treated as collaborators by Stalin and deported, somewhat like the Rum or Pontic Greeks on the other side of the Black Sea were largely removed in the early '20 from Turkey outside Istanbul.

Anyhow the people in these 'Republics' are not particularly Russian, just bilingual, and probably will adhere to whosoever proves the stronger. These territories only cover a portion of the oblasts they are named after. I wonder if Russia will push out from what they have.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

Goldfinch

Quote from: mikemac on February 23, 2022, 06:32:27 PMAny Ukrainian remembering the Holodomor would have very good reason not to want to be under the influence of Russian control ever again.

At best, the Holodomor would be a reason not to want to be under the control of Bolsheviks ever again. The umbilical ties of the Ukraine with Russia span more than a thousand years. Kiev is the mother of Rusdom, more than Moscow or Novgorod.

Quote from: Prayerful on February 23, 2022, 06:43:32 PMThe experience of Holmodor resulted in widespread support for German sponsored military formations in WW2, even if the Germans could be grudging and sometimes hostile.

If someday a foreign army invaded Washington and drained the swamp, it wouldn't necessarily follow that the Americans who supported such actions would hate America. The Ukrainians who helped the German army during WW2 resented the Bolsheviks, not Russia itself.


"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great

King Wenceslas

Actually, Russia's ties to the Ukraine goes back centuries. Kviv came first, Moscow second.

Don't rewrite history due to your pro-Russian views and pro-invasion bias.

Are you a Russian bot?

Goldfinch

Quote from: King Wenceslas on February 24, 2022, 12:23:32 PM
Actually, Russia's ties to the Ukraine goes back centuries. Kviv came first, Moscow second.

Don't rewrite history due to your pro-Russian views and pro-invasion bias.

What history have I rewritten?

QuoteAre you a Russian bot?

Obviously. That's the only rational explanation.
"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great

mikemac

It is an obvious question, considering your's and a couple of other's strange pro-Russian stance.  Especially after King Wenceslas posted that video of Putin's take on nuclear war with the Russians laughing with his comment.  Just deranged. 
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

trentcath

Quote from: mikemac on February 24, 2022, 05:10:30 PM
It is an obvious question, considering your's and a couple of other's strange pro-Russian stance.  Especially after King Wenceslas posted that video of Putin's take on nuclear war with the Russians laughing with his comment.  Just deranged.

You really think Putin has nothing better to do than create bots for an obscure catholic website?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The reality is plenty of trads and actual conservatives, not the fake "muh, free market, muh, liberty" ones, have and always have had sympathy for Putin. That's pretty well known, so it's not at all logical to assume that people posting Putin sympathetic stuff are Russian bots. In fact, it just shows a lack of reasoning skills and/or a will bent towards being disingenous.

mikemac

Well sympathy for Putin certainly is strange no matter who it comes from, especially after we see the mad man's take on nuclear war.  Anyone that sees that and still has sympathy for Putin is off their friggin rocker.  Sorry, it's the only way to say it.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

Goldfinch

Quote from: mikemac on February 24, 2022, 06:41:11 PMWell sympathy for Putin certainly is strange no matter who it comes from, especially after we see the mad man's take on nuclear war.  Anyone that sees that and still has sympathy for Putin is off their friggin rocker.  Sorry, it's the only way to say it.

Let me guess: traditional Catholics should have sympathy for International Jewish finance (Zelensky is a Jewish agitator that has provoked yet another war), secular Western democracies (all inspired by the Enlightenment, being essential in the de-Christianization of society) and the glories of the free market (another brainchild of Freemasonry and the Jewish mind)?

At least Russia has a reasonable historical claim to the Ukraine and can function in the future as a convenient instrument of chastisement. What do the US and Europe have to offer us now? More usury, more wars in the Middle East to spread democracy, more secularism, more gay rights and more transgenderism? Vade retro, Satana!
"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great

mikemac

Quote from: Goldfinch on February 24, 2022, 07:43:02 PM
Quote from: mikemac on February 24, 2022, 06:41:11 PMWell sympathy for Putin certainly is strange no matter who it comes from, especially after we see the mad man's take on nuclear war.  Anyone that sees that and still has sympathy for Putin is off their friggin rocker.  Sorry, it's the only way to say it.

Let me guess: traditional Catholics should have sympathy for International Jewish finance (Zelensky is a Jewish agitator that has provoked yet another war), secular Western democracies (all inspired by the Enlightenment, being essential in the de-Christianization of society) and the glories of the free market (another brainchild of Freemasonry and the Jewish mind)?

At least Russia has a reasonable historical claim to the Ukraine and can function in the future as a convenient instrument of chastisement. What do the US and Europe have to offer us now? More usury, more wars in the Middle East to spread democracy, more secularism, more gay rights and more transgenderism? Vade retro, Satana!

Russia has no historical claim to Ukraine.  The only ones that have a claim to Ukraine are Ukranians.  And they want nothing to do with Putin or Russia.  Back off, Satan yourself, you weirdo.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source