Pope's don't "resign". There is no "resignation".

Started by TerrorDæmonum, February 15, 2013, 02:27:31 PM

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TerrorDæmonum

I see many references in news and in people's posts about the "resignation" of Pope Benedict XVI.

That is not correct. He is not resigning. He cannot. This is not a political office.

The term is "renounce", in the same manner of Pope Celestine V's wording.

I would suggest that this proper term for Catholic matters be used on this forum, rather than joining in with the secular media.

maryslittlegarden

I've heard people using abdicate, also.  Not sure how accurate that one is, though.
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OCLittleFlower

Quote from: maryslittlegarden on February 15, 2013, 02:34:57 PM
I've heard people using abdicate, also.  Not sure how accurate that one is, though.

Same here.  I thought abdicate would be more accurate, considering that he is a monarch, even if he isn't a hereditary one.
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CamelliaSinensis

Father Z did a segment on this yesterday in which he said abdicate would be the appropriate term for the act of B16.  My belief is the secular world thinks of the Pope as a religious president.  To them, B16 is resigning the Catholic presidency and will retire to a monastery as Joseph Ratzinger, the ex pope. When the tiara, papal court, and papal regalia were watered down, the world stopped seeing the pontiff as a religious monarch. Most especially the loss of the triregnum.

Kaesekopf

CS:
I would say the popes themselves have ceased seeing themselves as religious monarchs.
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Christknight104

Ever since Pope John Paul II, popes have foregone the tiara and no longer begin their papacy with a Papal Coronation Mass. In fact, Pope Benedict XVI himself removed the tiara on his papal standard, replacing it with the mitre. This demonstrates that the popes of the last 50 years see themselves less as monarchs, no doubt the consequence of Conciliarism, which seeks to put the pope on the same level as his inferior bishops, who do resign.

Der Kaiser

Quote from: Christknight104 on February 15, 2013, 04:11:09 PM
Ever since Pope John Paul II, popes have foregone the tiara and no longer begin their papacy with a Papal Coronation Mass. In fact, Pope Benedict XVI himself removed the tiara on his papal standard, replacing it with the mitre. This demonstrates that the popes of the last 50 years see themselves less as monarchs, no doubt the consequence of Conciliarism, which seeks to put the pope on the same level as his inferior bishops, who do resign.

Actually that started with JP I
"If a Pope changes the rites of the sacraments he puts himself outside the Church and is Anathema"-Pope Innocent III

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Anti-Christ"-Our Lady of La Sallette

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Christknight104

Quote from: Der Kaiser on February 15, 2013, 04:48:23 PM
Quote from: Christknight104 on February 15, 2013, 04:11:09 PM
Ever since Pope John Paul II, popes have foregone the tiara and no longer begin their papacy with a Papal Coronation Mass. In fact, Pope Benedict XVI himself removed the tiara on his papal standard, replacing it with the mitre. This demonstrates that the popes of the last 50 years see themselves less as monarchs, no doubt the consequence of Conciliarism, which seeks to put the pope on the same level as his inferior bishops, who do resign.

Actually that started with JP I

Ah, you are right. I tend to forget John Paul I, considering his very short reign as pope.

Der Kaiser

The Pope said renounce in his speech it's the lame stream media that have turned it into resign.
"If a Pope changes the rites of the sacraments he puts himself outside the Church and is Anathema"-Pope Innocent III

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Anti-Christ"-Our Lady of La Sallette

The hebrews have not recognized the lord, therefore we can not recognize the hebrews.-St Pius X

Der Kaiser

Quote from: Christknight104 on February 15, 2013, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: Der Kaiser on February 15, 2013, 04:48:23 PM
Quote from: Christknight104 on February 15, 2013, 04:11:09 PM
Ever since Pope John Paul II, popes have foregone the tiara and no longer begin their papacy with a Papal Coronation Mass. In fact, Pope Benedict XVI himself removed the tiara on his papal standard, replacing it with the mitre. This demonstrates that the popes of the last 50 years see themselves less as monarchs, no doubt the consequence of Conciliarism, which seeks to put the pope on the same level as his inferior bishops, who do resign.

Actually that started with JP I

Ah, you are right. I tend to forget John Paul I, considering his very short reign as pope.

Yeah, I dont think he even had his mail forwarded yet.
"If a Pope changes the rites of the sacraments he puts himself outside the Church and is Anathema"-Pope Innocent III

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Anti-Christ"-Our Lady of La Sallette

The hebrews have not recognized the lord, therefore we can not recognize the hebrews.-St Pius X

TerrorDæmonum

Quote from: Der Kaiser on February 15, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
The Pope said renounce in his speech it's the lame stream media that have turned it into resign.

Exactly.


Melkite

Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 15, 2013, 03:48:16 PM
CS:
I would say the popes themselves have ceased seeing themselves as religious monarchs.

As they well should.

Quote from: Christknight104 on February 15, 2013, 04:11:09 PM
Ever since Pope John Paul II, popes have foregone the tiara and no longer begin their papacy with a Papal Coronation Mass. In fact, Pope Benedict XVI himself removed the tiara on his papal standard, replacing it with the mitre. This demonstrates that the popes of the last 50 years see themselves less as monarchs, no doubt the consequence of Conciliarism, which seeks to put the pope on the same level as his inferior bishops, who do resign.

You clearly don't understand the nature of the episcopal office.  The pope isn't a monarch, plain and simple.  Being a citizen of the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation, not being a citizen of the papal states.  Why are trads frequently incapable of separating their zeal for Christian orthodoxy from a misguided zeal for medieval ecclesial politics?

tmw89

Quote from: Melkite on February 16, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
You clearly don't understand the nature of the episcopal office.  The pope isn't a monarch, plain and simple.

:doh:

Quote from: Melkite on February 16, 2013, 10:56:57 AM
Why are trads frequently incapable of separating their zeal for Christian orthodoxy from a misguided zeal for medieval ecclesial politics?

Not inaccurate and insulting at all...
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Melkite

Ok, sorry, I'll rephrase it.  The pope isn't *supposed to be* a monarch.  Effectively, though, he has been one through much of Christian history.  And certainly at many times, the pope, as monarch, has been a benevolent one, but it doesn't change the fact that king was never the divinely instituted office he was supposed to fill.  One cannot believe it was without having a faulty understanding of the nature of the papacy, and I do stand by that.

voxxpopulisuxx

Monarch is defined not as king but as sole head. So the pope is more than a king. He is the voice of Jesus Christ on earth. Christ is monarch..Pope is monarch.....end of story.
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