Paul Touvier & The SSPX

[lauermar]

I watched a TV show yesterday afternoon; it may have been The History Channel. It was about Beate & Serge Klarsfeld, the flight of Nazi war criminals into Argentina and other countries. I heard and saw credible evidence from journalists who exposed Paul Touvier, a self-described "Catholic" who was a murderer and a Nazi operative working closely with Klaus Barbie.  He was a known fugitive who was hid and protected by Marcel Lefebvre in his priory at Nice, France. This continued for decades. And when SS Captain Erich Priebke died without public remorse for his crimes against humanity, the SSPX gave him a full Catholic requiem mass!

Here's some background in Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_the_Society_of_Saint_Pius_X

I was shocked and angry because:

1. I was misled by The Remnant Newspaper and other Catholic bloggers about the truth of Lefebvre's life. I thought he was a holy priest defending the church against modernism like St. Pius X. I was foolish to believe their rubbish that one day he might be canonized. Now I don't trust them and their propaganda.

2. Lefebvre and his cohorts knew Touvier was a fugitive and they spent considerable effort to thwart the police and investigative reporters. I don't buy their excuse that they were simply protecting a homeless man. More rubbish!

3. Anti-Semitism ran rampant at the SSPX priory in Nice. Now, I'm no fan of Rabbinical Judaism. I despise any cult that rejects Christ. However, I pray that the Jews and others accept Christ as Messiah one day. There is never any excuse for racial hatred, ever!  It isn't Catholic.

4. The SSPX priory in Nice espoused far-right extremist viewpoints, including public Holocaust denials.

5. The SSPX is equally guilty as the Vatican in its protection of priest abusers today.

6. I've got nowhere to go if my if my local parish introduces gay nuptial blessings, women deacons or married priests. I'll have to practice my faith at home. I won't support modernists, anti-Semites, far right wackos or abusers.

7. This news comes while I'm still recovering from shock at my own parish, the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius, since Pastor Phillips was removed as a practicing homosexual.  I don't trust anyone anymore. What are they hiding beneath their facade of piety?

Honestly, is there a single priest left standing that isn't a wacko, a Nazi sympathizer, a criminal or a pervert?

[Carleendiane]

Yes, Lauer, there are many, many holy priests. Most are NOT corrupt. Any one bad priest within an organization does not mean ALL are corrupt. Thank God!

Edit: The history channel is not unbiased and therefor not trustworthy when portraying matters of church. The media at times, are masters of spin, manage to sound so plausable. Surely don't want to insult your intelligence here. No doubt you know this. But....all matters pertaining to Catholicism, I personally would want a different source. I may find them right, but then again, I may find them dead wrong. Just saying, public broadcasting would NEVER be my last word on a subject.

[lauermar]

Carlee, it's not a problem of just one person. It appears rampant in the SSPX and traditional culture.

[Carleendiane]

I understand the despair over each bad priest. But as in trusting anyone, anyone, we are vulnerable and may be hurt. Priests are even more devastating when proven to be corrupt. That's why we react so hard. But the temptation to separate from the Church instituted by Christ to give grace, must be fought. We pick ourselves up again and again trust a good priest when we find one. I have been blessed many times over by the good priests. In my 59 years I have only been hurt once. Personally. Of course there were many, many awful events, but personally, pertaining to my family and i, just once. Should never happen, of course, but I've found more good than bad.

[lauermar]

I am a consecrated soul so I don't separate myself from Christ. But I believe the organized Catholic church on earth has separated itself from Christ. As such, it's no longer truly Catholic.

In my 58 years, have witnessed betrayals in parishes I've belonged to many times:

1. In 1996, SJRL had a "conservative" pastor removed as a known pedophile abuser.

2. The next priest that took over at SJRL was committing sacrilege and was removed also.

3. In 2008, at SGG, my pastor advised me to accept my transsexual brother as God made him and said the Catholic church is moving toward acceptance of the LGBT lifestyle. My brother was not in sin as he is a child of God, and I shouldn't be judging him. He also said there's nothing wrong with gay marriage as long as it isn't consummated!  I became physically and emotionally ill after speaking with him and had to stay home from work for a day. It took me a week to recover from the depression. At this same parish, an associate pastor in confessional told me to read a Buddhist book for my penance. I finally left this parish for SJC in Chicago around 2013.

4. In 2018, the removal of Pastor Phillips as a homosexual at my parish in SJC Chicago.

That's enough for a lifetime.

[LausTibiChriste]

Youre right quick to believe everything you read, arent you.

The Church has separated from Christ
Arch-Separated Bishop (Cupich) removes a pastor on allegations
Yet you believe those allegations immediately without question



Do you see the disconnect here?


Also regarding OP...it was the History Channel. Do youre own fact checking before you buy whatever TV tells you. Our media isnt exactly friendly to anything remotely Catholic

[lauermar]

The anti-Catholic media has exposed the many atrocities of the Vatican scandals. Witnesses are numerous. I'm not going to shoot the messenger.

The Catholic Church no longer teaches that marrying outside the church or engaging in free unions are automatically mortal sins. The Catholic church no longer publicly teaches the doctrine of EENS. So many books & articles show the separation, there's no need for me to list them all here.

Yes, there are public records for the allegations against the SSPX hiding Nazis and denying the Holocaust.  Priebke's requiem mass happened. The full truth about Touvier is exposed.

Yes, I believe that Phillips is culpable. It is possible for a man to suppress his impulses for over 30 years (like my brother did to his wife and kids) until a feared authority figure dies or leaves (my dad), then he figures it's safe to come out of the closet. I know the psychology well.

In Phillips' case, it started 3 years ago, after the installation of Bergoglio and his tolerance. I believe Phillips was afraid of being found out; especially during the reign of Ratzinger and how he cleaned up the Marcel Maciel scandal. Phillips probably figured the church was heading in a new direction, like my pastor at SGG said. He allowed himself to be tempted and didn't suppress it. He thought the "mercy and accompaniment" tolerance would apply to him, but he was wrong. It is for liberal priests only, not traditional priests.

[christulsa]

The connection is at least a serious concern.   And I didn't read the Society repudiating his murdering of Jews as a Nazi.  Even from a public relations point of view,  the non-response itself made them look like they lacked concern about the scandal.

Re Fr. Phillips of the Canons in Illinois.   He is innocent until proven guilty of the charges, and Oakes Spalding on his blog has reported he has an overwhelmingly unanimous support from his parishioners.   Something to consider.

[lauermar]

The order of SJC removed Phillips because of credible evidence. There was more than one witness over 3 years. The witnesses said it was consensual and not rape. So yes, he is guilty of homosexual relations. But there will not be a trial folks, because there are no anti-sodomy laws on the books anymore. So the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra doesn't apply here.

There is nothing more to consider. Why?  Because my pastor at SJRL in 1999 had overwhelming support from me and my parish because we thought the allegations of sexual abuse were false. He was a conservative pastor and we didn't want to believe he was guilty. Eventually it was proven. My mom was angry, and she wouldn't say why.  Only after she died did my uncle tell me she had witnessed the pastor's abuses. She used to work in the rectory.

Someday "Oakes Spalding" will grow up and use his real name instead of a pseudonym. Maybe he will accept reality if he witnesses the devious acts himself. People can wear a straight and narrow mask for a long, long time. My brother, two award-winning police office officers in our community (both eventually found to be notorious criminals), Corapi, Euteneur, Weakland, Law, Paul VI, Opus Dei, etc. They can fool you for decades. Not me any longer.

[Miriam_M]

I did not see the History channel episode; I watch very, very little TV as it is, and almost nothing produced in contemporary times.  Years ago, I did watch that channel, but sometimes their scholarship is questionable and is "edited" for popular appeal.  I do not know the particulars of the SSPX involvement or supposed lack of response, of which the OP speaks.  I know only this:  Many years ago, at a time when I was friendly to Jewish causes and movements, I happened to meet Beate Klarsfeld and hear her speak.  It is my impression that not only she, but other Nazi-hunters and Holocaust historians I have personally known, and known well, are on the fanatic and semi-paranoid side, to say the least.

[Christe Eleison]

I am a consecrated soul so I don't separate myself from Christ. But I believe the organized Catholic church on earth has separated itself from Christ. As such, it's no longer truly Catholic.

In my 58 years, have witnessed betrayals in parishes I've belonged to many times:

1. In 1996, SJRL had a "conservative" pastor removed as a known pedophile abuser.

2. The next priest that took over at SJRL was committing sacrilege and was removed also.

3. In 2008, at SGG, my pastor advised me to accept my transsexual brother as God made him and said the Catholic church is moving toward acceptance of the LGBT lifestyle. My brother was not in sin as he is a child of God, and I shouldn't be judging him. He also said there's nothing wrong with gay marriage as long as it isn't consummated!  I became physically and emotionally ill after speaking with him and had to stay home from work for a day. It took me a week to recover from the depression. At this same parish, an associate pastor in confessional told me to read a Buddhist book for my penance. I finally left this parish for SJC in Chicago around 2013.

4. In 2018, the removal of Pastor Phillips as a homosexual at my parish in SJC Chicago.

That's enough for a lifetime.

Lauermar, what does SGG and SJRL stand for? What are the actual names?

Thanks & God bless 

[christulsa]

So go home alone then?   How about the local Institute?  An Eastern rite?  Some old priest saying a private Mass?  Something.  Consider Greg's Kung Fu approach, just move onto another Mass when things get bad like the character in that TV show.   And he is as cynical as it comes about the institutional Church.  Vodka helps too. 

[Heinrich]

Priebke gave a public apology and renouncement of his sins, which included war crimes. He became Catholic and lived as a pious (NO) Catholic while under supervised incarceration. The scandal here was the refusal of the New Church to give him his rightful service. This is where the Society stepped in and did the Catholic, i.e. right thing.

[Kaesekopf]

Why do Catholics foam at the mouth over anything regarding the Jews?

[LausTibiChriste]

Why do Catholics foam at the mouth over anything regarding the Jews?

How can you trust a people who systematically cut baby penises