experiencing someones soul leave the body at death

[Traditionallyruralmom]

again, back to the original topic......I was wondering if there were compilations of stories similar to the purgatory stories on this theme. 

[Greg]

I have never heard of any in Catholic books besides the Don Bosco comic books.

The stories I have heard of tend to be out of body experiences and people leaving their body at death " seeing the light " and coming back again but most of these witnesses are not Catholics.

Not sure that the at death experience is a good moment.

When the body is well and truly buried and the emotions calm down and people appear months or years later that is slightly more convincing.

[Lynne]

again, back to the original topic......I was wondering if there were compilations of stories similar to the purgatory stories on this theme.

There's this... Hungry Souls: Supernatural Visits, Messages, and Warnings from Purgatory

https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_stripbooks_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A03257371WAAP9P9QMBKV&url=%2FHungry-Souls-Supernatural-Messages-Purgatory%2Fdp%2F0895558998%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1_sspa%3Fcrid%3D114WXVS2VBA8S%26dchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dhungry%2Bsouls%2Bsupernatural%2Bvisits%26qid%3D1601389111%26s%3Dbooks%26sprefix%3Dhungery%2Bsoul%252Caps%252C165%26sr%3D1-1-spons%26psc%3D1&qualifier=1601389111&id=3778816862639993&widgetName=sp_atf

[mikemac]

Beyond goodbye

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/12/us/shared-death/

[Greg]

If I understand you correctly, if someone really experienced the phenomenon he calls a "ghost", you will, in the absence of "physical evidence", dismiss it as a creation of the brain or mind.

It depends.  If the person was rational, not given to emotions, did not believe in aliens, had never been to a seance, and they described something plausible I might.

But if they were a nutter, or prone to that, I would not without some physical evidence.

People claim all sorts of stupid shit all the time.

[Greg]

I'd like to understand something.

Why should I believe a random child, or female adult Catholic who claims to see Our Lady?

That is a heck of a claim, any loon can make it and many loons do.  Why on earth should it be more pious or holy to believe these claims credulously than to be sceptical of them without very solid proof.

Before they are just one of many children in the world and after THEY CLAIM to see Our Lady they are suddenly to be believed and treated like a saint?

These visionaries are not Jesus.  They have not risen from the dead or raised the dead in my presence.  They have not walked on water or turned water into wine.  Thus I am not a doubting Thomas.

Why on earth should I believe somebody just because they claim to have experienced something supernatural or preternatural?

Based on the laws of averages (most are liars or deluded) the correct response should be to doubt them unless and until something they have been told from Heaven demonstrates that they have been passed supernatural knowledge.

[Frank]

My head of school and his wife believed in the Little Pebble.

I only takes a minute's googling to realise what rubbish that is

[Bernadette]

I believe approved apparitions, as evidenced by my username. If there were someone claiming to have seen an apparition now, I would be less likely to believe it.

[Daniel]

I would believe Fatima and La Salette and Lourdes on the Church's authority. The Church investigated them and said these apparitions were worthy of belief.

"Why should I believe children?" The better question is, why shouldn't you believe the children? These are pious and innocent children we're talking about. They don't tell sacrilegious lies. They may have been mistaken, but they couldn't have been lying.

Fake apparitions, whether hoaxes or actual satanic apparitions, always contain bad doctrine, bad fruits, etc. The Church-approved apparitions aren't like that. They are perfectly orthodox, and are accompanied by miracles and stuff. I'm sure also that the children were not found to be insane.

[Greg]

How do you know they are pious?

Plenty of kids are liars.  Lucia's mother thought she was a liar.  Why would her mother not know her daughter's character?

What can ever happen to disprove Fatima now?  It can linger on with nothing happening for 100s of years and if anything positive happens with Russia people can retro fit it to whatever they want to pick from the long past apparition and say "well God must have meant this when he said that". 

[Frank]

I used to lie my head off as a boy. My surname sounded a bit German so
I told my best friend my father was a German baron.

I had a vivid imagination and I was always making up stuff
during the war.

Anyone who think kids are innocent must have led a very
sheltered childhood.

Being a skilful liar has its upside though. When us boy scouts
were confined to the main tent in typical English summer I used
to entertain the troop for hours on end by telling them gripping
stories about Digger Dawson in the Australian outback.
I just made it up as I went along. I couldn't manage it now.

You can't be a spy unless you know how to lie.

[Greg]

Once again I ask.

A child or group of children makes up some story about a vision and future event.  She connects it politically.  20,000 people show up.  Gets oxygen of publicity and useful to those in power.  Those doubting it are called impious for not believing it.  Becomes entrenched like medjugore.

At what future point can you ever say it was wrong?

If none of the 10 secrets has happened by the year 2200 can we say the vision was a fraud?  Perhaps something loosely similar happens by accident.  The believers shoehorn it in and use it to promote the prophecy.

These prophecies are spawned but there's no way to kill them and stop them arising like zombies again.  If someone can get spiritual eyes, Russia can have an "interior conversion" and we can have spiritual peace or economic peace or peace in Portugal while wars carry on.

The period of peace could be 1 year or 100 years. Who is to say the period is not long enough to qualify?

[Frank]

In the case of Fatima you will have to account for the miracle witnessed by
thousands plus sceptical reporters.

Still, you are doing a magnificent job as devil's advocate.
Please carry on. 

[diaduit]

woo woo woo woo

Sorry, I just love that word 

back to topic.

[awkwardcustomer]

In the case of Fatima you will have to account for the miracle witnessed by
thousands plus sceptical reporters.

Still, you are doing a magnificent job as devil's advocate.
Please carry on. 

Start a thread.

Then we can discuss the Fatima deception without disrupting this one.