Thoughts on Adoption

[Bonaventure]

3) I don't think other people need to make sacrifices to help someone who made poor choices and does not wish improve things for their own family.  There are people who are legitimately down on their luck, yes.  But I don't think Catholics need to sacrifice our own comfort in order to bankroll the fornication of secularists.

5) I don't think that those who sin and face the consequences are "less fortunate" anymore than compulsive gamblers and people who can't manage money are "less fortunate."  Luck had nothing to do with it.  If they are willing to accept help -- and by help I mean ALL help, not just financial but also help to straighten up and fly right -- that's one thing.  But if they wish to keep on doing what they're doing and have others bankroll it?  No thanks.

There but for the grace of God go I, and you, and any of us. If you avoided sin, it's because of God, not your own ability.

We have all been given the graces needed to save our souls.

Some people might disagree with that.

Any promotion of Jansenism and you're gone.

[LouisIX]

Listen to The Dude.

[Vetus Ordo]

Any promotion of Jansenism and you're gone.

I just said, en passant, that some people might disagree with the popular proposition put forward by OCLittleFlower.

You don't need to get that excited, Bonaventure.

[Spooky]

4) Shouldn't the mother who failed at chastity make the sacrifice for her own child? (IE place the child in another family where that child could be provided for.)  If she isn't willing to make that sacrifice, why should others make sacrifices for her

When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. [10] But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.

[11] And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, [12] Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. [13] But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? [14] Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. [

[OCLittleFlower]

3) I don't think other people need to make sacrifices to help someone who made poor choices and does not wish improve things for their own family.  There are people who are legitimately down on their luck, yes.  But I don't think Catholics need to sacrifice our own comfort in order to bankroll the fornication of secularists.

5) I don't think that those who sin and face the consequences are "less fortunate" anymore than compulsive gamblers and people who can't manage money are "less fortunate."  Luck had nothing to do with it.  If they are willing to accept help -- and by help I mean ALL help, not just financial but also help to straighten up and fly right -- that's one thing.  But if they wish to keep on doing what they're doing and have others bankroll it?  No thanks.

There but for the grace of God go I, and you, and any of us. If you avoided sin, it's because of God, not your own ability.

We have all been given the graces needed to save our souls.

Some people might disagree with that.

Any promotion of Jansenism and you're gone.

Nitpicking here -- but what Vetus puts forth sounds more like Calvinism -- Jansenists at least claim the Catholic religion.

[OCLittleFlower]

4) Shouldn't the mother who failed at chastity make the sacrifice for her own child? (IE place the child in another family where that child could be provided for.)  If she isn't willing to make that sacrifice, why should others make sacrifices for her

When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. [10] But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.

[11] And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, [12] Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. [13] But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? [14] Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. [

I fail to see how this answers my question.  I don't deny that all saints were sinners.  I don't deny that people can make 11th hour conversions.

I'm just saying that what Erin and Stitchmom are asking seems unrealistic.  They want to take all accounability away from unwed mothers.  Instead, they want others to step in and give money (in Stitchmom's case, large sums of it).  And they want people to do this for people who aren't willing to a) play by the rules and/or b) find somewhere better for their infants.

[Mithrandylan]

Question:

Will a woman who wants to give her child away be a better mother than a woman who is willing to take in a child who is no relation to her and raise it as if it came from her womb?

Hmmm

[erin is nice]

Question:

Will a woman who wants to give her child away be a better mother than a woman who is willing to take in a child who is no relation to her and raise it as if it came from her womb?

Hmmm

I doubt most women who give up their babies truly want to. Maybe they feel as though they have no other choice.

And the woman who takes in her child is usually desperate and infertile, so it's not like it's a totally unselfish act.

[Mithrandylan]

Erin, you're treating adoption as if it's something that women are forced into.  The implication I get from your posts is you think this to be the case often.

As someone who has not adopted and doesn't know anyone who has, I am wondering if you have experience with this?  Do you have a reason for believing this is the case?

[Guapo]

My mother gave my little brother up for adoption (I was three when he was born). My mom could barely get by with me, even with all the help we received from my grandparents. Until I was about 10 we received letters from the couple with updates and photos. It wasn't an open adoption but they did this out of kindness toward my mother.

I am very grateful he was spared the childhood that I had, and his adoptive parents loved him so much and received so much joy at being his parents.

He was pretty young when they told him he was adopted. He responded with, "My real mom must have loved me a lot to give me up so I could have you." (According to one of their letters). And that is really true. Giving a child up for adoption is an act of selfless love toward the child and an act of charity to the adoptive couple.

Thankyou for this touching story.

My little adopted niece was going to be aborted. Her mother was a mess yet with the help of  my friend in front of an abortion mill and God's grace the mother chose life and later she was adopted.  The mother was well taken care of during her pregnancy, given a small job, support, etc... in the end it all worked out.  Thankyou Blessed Mother. 

[Archer]

I doubt most women who give up their babies truly want to. Maybe they feel as though they have no other choice.

Oh come on, that is naive to the max. The majority of women aren't the Mother Theresa's you make them out to be.  You and the other good Catholic Mothers on this board are definitely the exception in society.   

But if you aren't the exception and the majority of mothers are virtuous, how do you explain the millions of babies aborted? How do you explain birth control and contraception?

And the woman who takes in her child is usually desperate and infertile, so it's not like it's a totally unselfish act.

Where do you get this stuff? Do you have any experience at all? My parents adopted 2 of my siblings from Romania, so let me tell you...I have plenty of experience.  There are 7 of us total, which makes my Mom definitely NOT infertile.  In fact, my parents originally only had plans to adopt my sister, but when they traveled to Romania to pick her up from the hospital/orphanage they saw she had a little friend too.  It was my Dad who knew from the moment he saw my brother that he had to come back for him.  So a year later I traveled to Romania with my Dad to finalize the adoption paperwork and bring my new brother back home.  It was one of the most eye opening experiences of my life.  Romania is a third world country and the "hospital" they lived in was disgusting.  I have plenty of stories if you'd like to hear them. 

My siblings have little memory of their parents.  My sister remembers some things but most of them are horrible and now she tries to forget them.  We don't know where my brother came from because his mom abandoned him when he was very little.  But he has a slight version of mental retardation that the doctors think was caused by heavy drug use by his mother when he was in the womb. 

Erin, if you have an axe to grind please do it somewhere else and don't insult good people like my Parents or OCLittleflower who are just trying to provide wholesome and loving homes (not to mention a chance at salvation) for kids who might not have a chance otherwise. 

[kayla_veronica]

Well said Archer.

[erin is nice]

Do you think the families adopting Romanian orphans are the same kind of people as those who want white American babies?

[Mithrandylan]

Do you think the families adopting Romanian orphans are the same kind of people as those who want white American babies?

Where are you coming from?

Romanians are white, too.  Last time I checked.  And if you're adopting an infant or young child, they'll speak the same language as you, too.

[kayla_veronica]

Do you think the families adopting Romanian orphans are the same kind of people as those who want white American babies?

Seriously Erin what is behind all this? You are stating so many things as fact without anything to back it up. How are you the expert on adoption demographics and intentions? If you've read a book or article on the subject please enlighten us.