Christian Muslim Marriages

[Bonaventure]

How are the children being raised?

[Christknight104]

The children, who are now in their twenties of so, were raised Muslim and are Muslim.The Novus Ordo  women were of course required to convert to Islam, for a Vatican II never happened to Muslims.  However, the children  are very westernized and secularised, wearing western clothing that cannot differentiate them from their American counterparts. Modern Kuwait is not at all like Saudi Arabia, and the vast majority of women there do not wear hijab or any traditional Arab clothing, preferring western jeans,pants, and luxury fashion brands. Those who wear all those traditional garb are very conservative and were not educated in the West, as most Kuwaitis are. The same is true in the United Arab Emirates, another modernized Arab nation. I would say the average Kuwaiti woman enjoys much more luxury and high western living than the average American woman, especially since she enjoys being pampered by her husband while staying at home and having nothing to do. One cannot underestimate the potent effect of secularism.

[erin is nice]

Islam teaches against both contraception and sodomy.

If the husband wants his wife to use contraception, she has an obligation to do so.

[Ancilla Domini]

Islam teaches against both contraception and sodomy.

If the husband wants his wife to use contraception, she has an obligation to do so.

Do you have a source for that? Everything I've read says the opposite, that if either spouse wants children, the other is obligated to provide them. Contraception is not absolutly forbidden in Islam, but it is strongly discouraged, except in cases where the mother's life or health is gravely endangered.

[Ancilla Domini]

Since I asked you to provide a source, I guess I should do the same.

http://islamiclearningmaterials.com/islam-birth-control/

This article says of barrier methods, "The man should only use these methods in agreement with his wife as she has the right to bear children if she wants."

The article also explains that hormonal contraception is only permitted when there is a compelling medical reason and the husband agrees; Hysterectomy is only allowed when when pregnancy threatens the woman's life; And vasectomy, because it is never medically necessary, is strictly forbidden.

[erin is nice]

Since I asked you to provide a source, I guess I should do the same.

http://islamiclearningmaterials.com/islam-birth-control/

This article says of barrier methods, "The man should only use these methods in agreement with his wife as she has the right to bear children if she wants."

The article also explains that hormonal contraception is only permitted when there is a compelling medical reason and the husband agrees; Hysterectomy is only allowed when when pregnancy threatens the woman's life; And vasectomy, because it is never medically necessary, is strictly forbidden.

I don't think a "moderate Islam" website constitutes a reliable source. That site does not state that muslims believe that it is acceptable to have sex with 9 year old girls, but they do in fact believe that.

[Ancilla Domini]

I don't think a "moderate Islam" website constitutes a reliable source.

Do you have a better source, or any source at all, to confirm your statement?

[OCLittleFlower]

Since I asked you to provide a source, I guess I should do the same.

http://islamiclearningmaterials.com/islam-birth-control/

This article says of barrier methods, "The man should only use these methods in agreement with his wife as she has the right to bear children if she wants."

The article also explains that hormonal contraception is only permitted when there is a compelling medical reason and the husband agrees; Hysterectomy is only allowed when when pregnancy threatens the woman's life; And vasectomy, because it is never medically necessary, is strictly forbidden.

Do they mean tube-tying is only allowed when pregnancy threatens the woman's life?  Because -- um, what about when uterine cancer threatens the woman's life?  Just sayin'...

[Ancilla Domini]

That site does not state that muslims believe that it is acceptable to have sex with 9 year old girls, but they do in fact believe that.

Does it claim that they don't? I don't think it addresses that issue. 

Look, I have no interest in promoting Islam. But claims that Muslims aren't against sodomy and contraception simply aren't true. They do hold those and many other "conservative" values. There are reasons enough against mixed marriages despite that.

[Ancilla Domini]

Do they mean tube-tying is only allowed when pregnancy threatens the woman's life?  Because -- um, what about when uterine cancer threatens the woman's life?  Just sayin'...

No, any medical procedure, even if it results in permanent sterility, is allowed, if it is necessary to save the life of the woman.

[Christknight104]

This should finalize the debate of whether Muslims believe in contraception I hope:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islamethics/contraception.shtml

Islamic views on contraception

Islamic medicine has known about birth control for centuries - for example the Muslim writers Avicenna (980-1037) and Al-Razi (d 923 or 924) refer to different methods of contraception.

Islam is strongly pro-family and regards children as a gift from God.

Muslim sexual ethics forbid sex outside marriage, so its teachings about birth control should be understood within the context of husband and wife.

There is no single attitude to contraception within Islam; however eight of the nine classic schools of Islamic law permit it.

But more conservative Islamic leaders have openly campaigned against the use of condoms or other birth control methods, thus making population planning in many countries ineffective.

This resistance to birth control was reflected in 2005 when a conference involving 40 Islamic scholars from 21 countries urged fresh efforts to push population planning and better reproductive health services.

But although all the participants were in favour of promoting the use of contraceptives for married couples, they were reluctant to make it part of their joint declaration for fear of reprisals from the more conservative Islamic scholars in their respective countries.

The Qur'an

The Qur'an does not refer to contraception explicitly, but Muslims opposed to birth control often quote the Qur'an as saying "You should not kill your children for fear of want" (17:31, 6:151) and interpret this as including a ban on contraception as well as infanticide. Supporters of birth control argue that this interpretation is wrong.

In practice most Muslim authorities permit contraception to preserve the health of the mother or the well-being of the family.
Hadith

There are a number of hadith which indicate that the Prophet knew of birth control and approved of it in appropriate circumstances.

Methods

Hadith are said to describe and approve of the withdrawal method ('azl).

Scholars point out that this method may deprive the woman of both sexual fulfilment and of having children, and so should not be used without the woman's agreement.

Egyptian scholars have argued that any method that has the same purpose as 'azl - i.e. preventing conception - is acceptable, so long as it does not have a permanent effect.

Contraceptive methods that do not prevent conception but cause a very early abortion are not accepted.

Contraception with the aim of having a permanently child-free marriage is not accepted. So sterilisation is wrong - partly because it prevents children permanently and partly because of a text forbidding men to castrate themselves.

[Bonaventure]

I wonder if the Wahhabis or the Shiites in Iran are okay with it.