Conciliar Church = Whore of Babylon?

[Bonaventure]

Many thanks to @Melkite for posing this question.

I could only find two trad contentions that the NO/Novus Ordo/New Church/Conciliar Church is the Whore of Babylon.

One is from the Dimonds, and the other, an article on Tradition in Action:

In his 1921 book The Apocalypse of St. John, Fr. E. Sylvester Berry tells that the terrible destruction and desolation of Rome will be the punishment for her many sins and for the sins resulting from apostasy and adherence to the Antichrist unto which she will leed other nations (summary of Chapter XVIII).

The centuries old question – Is Babylon the Conciliar Church? – seems to be answered in Chapter XVIII of the Apocalypse, as described in the following verses.
(v.3) Because all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her; and the merchants of the earth have been made rich by the power of her delicacies. Fornication is typically used in Holy Scripture to describe idolatry, inauthentic worship or spiritual infidelity.

(v.4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Go out from her, my people; that you be not partakers of her sin and that you receive not of her plaques. St. John the Evangelist, warning us about saving our souls.

(v.5) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and the Lord hath remembered her iniquities.

(v.16) That great city, which was clothed with fine linen, and purple and scarlet, and was gilt with gold and precious stones and pearls. For in one hour so great riches come to naught. Purple and scarlet the colors of the hierarchy: bishops and cardinals.

(v.23) And the light of the lamp shall no more at all in thee (the Sanctuary Lamp signifying Christ's real presence); and the voice of the bridegroom and the bride (Christ and Church) shall be heard no more at all in thee.

(v.24) And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
These verses seem to indicate that Babylon is not the Church established by Jesus Christ but the Novus Ordo Church or Conciliar Church, which infiltrated the Catholic Church and usurps her name. The latter is today unduly considered by other religions and the world as the Catholic Church.

https://www.traditioninaction.org/SOD/j226sd_OLLaSalette_9-19.html

We also find that Melanie Calvat, with the approval of the diocesan bishop, published "secret" of La Salette on November 15, 1879:

The priests, ministers of my Son, the priests, by their wicked lives, by their irreverence and their impiety in the celebration of the holy mysteries, by their love of money, their love of honors and pleasures, the priests have become cesspools of impurity. Yes, the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads. Woe to the priests and to those dedicated to God who by their unfaithfulness and their wicked lives are crucifying my son again! The sins of those dedicated to God cry out towards Heaven and call for vengeance, and now vengeance is at their door, for there is no one left to beg mercy and forgiveness for the people. There are no more generous souls, there is no one left worthy of offering a stainless sacrifice to the Eternal God for the sake of the world.

Do we not see this in cowardly, effete, perverted, vain, heretical priests, not only in the official Church, but even amongst trads? James Jackson (FSSP, Arnaud Rostand (SSPX), Dennis McMahon (sede) all come to mind.

Priests and religious orders will be hunted down, and made to die a cruel death. Several will abandon the faith, and a great number of priests and members of religious orders will break away from the true religion; among these people there will even be bishops.

No explanation required.

All the civil governments will have one and the same plan, which will be to abolish and do away with every religious principle, to make way for materialism, atheism, spiritualism and vice of all kinds.

Do we not see this worldwide?

Finally, and most famously:

Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist

[Michael Wilson]

Except in the case of Melanie's secret, it was put on the Index and never allowed to be published; and when the bishop of Lecce published it, he was notified that he had to withdraw it from circulation immediately.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

Except in the case of Melanie's secret, it was put on the Index and never allowed to be published; and when the bishop of Lecce published it, he was notified that he had to withdraw it from circulation immediately.

And Benedict XVI confirmed that the Index, while not updated, is still morally "in force" for Catholics.

[Bonaventure]

Except in the case of Melanie's secret, it was put on the Index and never allowed to be published; and when the bishop of Lecce published it, he was notified that he had to withdraw it from circulation immediately.

I never knew

[LausTibiChriste]

Those verses from Revelation compared with the current state of the Church are eerie.

[Greg]

Vengeance is now at their door from 1879?

Was she commenting on the state of the hierarchy then?  You're taking about our great great grandparents time.  No electricity, no powered flight, no automobiles.

I don't see the point of warning people 5 generation before the event takes place.  There's essentially 50 years from 10 to 60 where I give a shit.  Less than 10 who cares, I am busy riding my bike.  More than 60 who cares, I already envy the dead.

[Bonaventure]

Vengeance is now at their door from 1879?

Was she commenting on the state of the hierarchy then?  You're taking about our great great grandparents time.  No electricity, no powered flight, no automobiles.

I don't see the point of warning people 5 generation before the event takes place.  There's essentially 50 years from 10 to 60 where I give a shit.  Less than 10 who cares, I am busy riding my bike.  More than 60 who cares, I already envy the dead.

Leaving aside the La Salette portion then.

Thoughts on the comparison with Book of Revelation?

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

Except in the case of Melanie's secret, it was put on the Index and never allowed to be published; and when the bishop of Lecce published it, he was notified that he had to withdraw it from circulation immediately.

I never knew

It's not part of the original vision received from Our Lady of La Salette.  The story is disturbing.

[Michael Wilson]

Somebody was asking on another thread if there were any people that were comparing the Conciliar Church with the "Whore of Babylon"; this is a thread on "Catholic Family Podcast", on the subject; I haven't watched it yet, so I don't know how interesting of accurate it is.

[JJoseph]

Careful. The reformers too applied Rev 17 to the Church of Rome, just like Peter Dimond does. When it says: "6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And I wondered, when I had seen her, with great admiration." (Revelation 17:6) - they claimed this applied to Catholic persecution of Protestants. It's hard to see whom the Roman Church is persecuting today, or whose blood She is supposedly drunk with. Rather, 360 MN Christians are persecuted today, about half of whom are Catholics.

If you read Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9, it speaks of a Synagogue of Satan that wages war against the Church of Christ. Also, in his first Epistle, Saint John identifies Anti-Christ and the anti-christ spirit with the denial that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That describes two religions, Talmudic Judaism and Radical Islam. I think it is more reasonable to believe that this Synagogue of Satan, apostate Judaism assisted by radical islamism, that persecutes the Church of Christ already today, is "the Whore of Babylon". This is confirmed where St. John calls the Great Evil City symbolically Sodom and Egypt, then identifies it with where the Lord was crucified, which is Jerusalem: "11. [8] And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Rev 11:8 ). Again, it's confirmed where Christ says in Mat 23:35 that upon you (upon Jerusalem) will come all the righteous blood shed of martyrs and saints etc: "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar." (Mat 23:35).

All this does not preclude that, when Anti-Christ comes, he may drive out the Pope from Rome and then start a false church in that city which persecutes Catholics and sheds their blood. That, however, is prophesied to happen only at the end of time, and for 3.5 years. In conclusion, then, I think the current manifestation of anti-Christ is more the Synagogue of Satan and also Radical Islam than Catholic churchmen. Jewry/Masonry etc is certainly trying to do things within the Church as well, but they are repeatedly meeting with pushback too. Rightly so.

[Bonaventure]

I didn't quote or cite Peter Dimond. As far as I'm concerned, he isn't Catholic.

[Michael Wilson]

I listened to this tape (22 min); this gentleman is an author of a book in which he claims to show the parallels between the Old Testament history and the History of the Church. He was on the Catholic Family show and spent some time explaining some of the parallels; all of which were very interesting.
The above segment is the drawing of the parallel between the destruction of Jerusalem and the predicted destruction of the Vatican.
I think it is worth a watch.

[TradGranny]

Except in the case of Melanie's secret, it was put on the Index and never allowed to be published; and when the bishop of Lecce published it, he was notified that he had to withdraw it from circulation immediately.

I never knew

It's not part of the original vision received from Our Lady of La Salette.  The story is disturbing.

Which part? Twenty or so years ago, a devout Trad Catholic gave me a battered old booklet with the original words of Mealanie including "Rome will become the seat of the antichrist" was in there.

[Michael Wilson]

T.G.

Which part? Twenty or so years ago, a devout Trad Catholic gave me a battered old booklet with the original words of Mealanie including "Rome will become the seat of the antichrist" was in there.

Yes, that is found in the 1879 "Secret", but not in the one she wrote out for Pius IX in 1850. Secondly, the Church put the "Secret" on the Index and I don't think it has ever released it.
Here is her biography on wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9lanie_Calvat

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

Which part? Twenty or so years ago, a devout Trad Catholic gave me a battered old booklet with the original words of Mealanie including "Rome will become the seat of the antichrist" was in there.

That quote comes from the condemned part.