Is online shopping on Sunday grave matter?

Started by Hannelore, May 20, 2024, 07:27:32 AM

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Hannelore

This came up (from me) in another thread, so I wanted people's opinions on it specifically. I never knew shopping on Sunday was grave matter until recently. I do all of my shopping online. Is it less grave when it's online, or is it the same? Thanks, all.
My Lord and my God.

Heinrich

Yeah, don't do it. It further machinates the mechanism of societal decay. Plus, a Commandment forbids it. 
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Hannelore

Quote from: Heinrich on May 20, 2024, 07:47:08 AMYeah, don't do it. It further machinates the mechanism of societal decay. Plus, a Commandment forbids it. 
Even when the order isn't processed until Monday?
My Lord and my God.

Heinrich

You know, do what you want. Sunday is not meant for unnecessary shopping. Regardless of platform. Last two times I shopped on Sunday: had to buy car part(or I wasn't going to make it home) and some crackers, ginger and alkaseltzer for a sick Frau H. Both instances were extremely unsettling. But sure, granulate exceptions to make your life more convenient. I mean, what could go wrong? Humanism has created such a wonderful world, right?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Hannelore

#4
It was an honest question, Heinrich. Don't be spikey.
My Lord and my God.

Heinrich

Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

The Curt Jester

Don't do unnecessary shopping on Sunday.  It doesn't matter what the seller does on his end because that is out of your hands.  What matters are the actions you can control (yours).
The royal feast was done; the King
Sought some new sport to banish care,
And to his jester cried: "Sir Fool,
Kneel now, and make for us a prayer!"

The jester doffed his cap and bells,
And stood the mocking court before;
They could not see the bitter smile
Behind the painted grin he wore.

He bowed his head, and bent his knee
Upon the Monarch's silken stool;
His pleading voice arose: "O Lord,
Be merciful to me, a fool!"

Acolyte

I had a NO priest tell me it's ok to shop for food on Sunday if I was going to consume that food on that particular Sunday. No exceptions.

He also said it's ok to mow the lawn on Sunday, but be sure and pray while mowing. Rosary, mental prayer, etc. His point was to keep God in mind during as much of the day on Sunday as possible.

Regardless, I don't shop or mow on Sunday but just offering an example of why the question about shopping and physical work on Sundays is asked from time to time. Depends on what priest you ask.

"From the moment we awake in the morning, let us pray continually in the words of holy David: Turn away my eyes, that they may not behold vanity"
St Alphonsus

"I will set my face against you, and you shall fall down before your enemies, and shall be made subject to them that hate you, you shall flee when no man pursueth you"
Leviticus 26:17

"Behold, O God our protector : and look upon the face of Thy Christ" (Ps. 79:20) Here is devotion to the face of Jesus Christ as prophesized by David."
Fr. Lawrence Daniel Carney III

Bonaventure

You are very scrupulous, about as much as I was at my worst. As such I don't think hashing these things out on here will do much good. It just feeds the scruples.

With that said, here is my opinion, one former severe scruple sufferer to a current one:

1. Do your best to sanctify Sunday and rest.

2. Try to avoid unnecessary shopping on Sunday, including online. Sometimes we slip up, and forget.

I don't think it's grave matter, unless you were to willfully, intentionally, make an act of the will, and say, I'm going to spend today, Sunday, instead of recreating, leisure, praying, etc., surfing Amazon, Target, etc and adding stuff to my cart and shopping.

Again, we slip up. Reading your thread, I just remembered yesterday that we ran out of Listerine, and I had an expiring CVS Caremark $10 coupon. I went and bought Listerine which will be shipped to my home later in the week.

Do I think this is grave matter? No. Could it be a venial sin? In this case since I didn't even remember or notice, probably not. Will some here or IRL argue that it is? Yes. Do I care? No.

Another example of grave matter would be, if you totally and unnecessarily decided to go to a car lot on Sunday, and decided to spend hours looking around, test driving, and buying the car, and you had 0 good reason to do so. Usually any mitigating circumstance will lesson the sin.

KreKre

#9
You forgot about it, you didn't have the intention to do it, so it's probably a minor venial sin. I wouldn't go to confession just because of that, but maybe mention it the next time you go, if you remember.

Like I said in the other thread, making someone work on Sunday is a grave matter, that is certain. However, I am almost positive that this specifically applies to employers who demand their workers to work on Sunday, and not to customers who take advantage of that. Sure, such customers create an economic demand for work on Sunday, and incentivize employers to mistreat workers, and take advantage of that, there is no doubt that it is not good, but is it a grave matter? I'd say that's a really, really big stretch... It's probably a venial sin.

And if you accidentally forget that it is Sunday, even though you had the best intention of not shopping on Sunday, it is certainly not a mortal sin, even if it were a grave matter (which it probably isn't). I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if you did it intentionally and said: "I know this is bad, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I value a jar of mayonnaise more than some worker not having a day off on Sunday", which is probably the worst way in which you can do this, I would still doubt that it's a mortal sin (although I would confess it, just in case, because the intention here would be pretty bad). Ultimately, the grave culpability is on the employer, and your sin would not be making someone work on Sunday (because you can't make anyone work on Sunday, except your employees, and only if they are desperate for work), but rather taking advantage of sin and providing the economic incentive for it.

Regarding online shopping, 99% of time, the orders are not processed manually on Sunday, the computer just registers it automatically and workers get to it on Monday. But since you cannot be sure that's the case, it does not give you the universal permission to shop on Sunday. Just try not to do it in the future, and don't worry about it.
Christus vincit! Christus regnat! Christus imperat!

Hannelore

Quote from: Bonaventure on May 20, 2024, 10:00:59 AMYou are very scrupulous, about as much as I was at my worst. As such I don't think hashing these things out on here will do much good. It just feeds the scruples.
You're probably right.
My Lord and my God.

KreKre

Quote from: Acolyte on May 20, 2024, 09:14:30 AMHe also said it's ok to mow the lawn on Sunday, but be sure and pray while mowing. Rosary, mental prayer, etc. His point was to keep God in mind during as much of the day on Sunday as possible.
I think this is a pretty bad advice. When you mow the lawn, you should be focused on mowing the lawn, otherwise you might injure yourself or someone else. And when you pray, you should be focused on praying, that should go without saying.
Christus vincit! Christus regnat! Christus imperat!

LausTibiChriste

I have nothing to back this up with and I am retarded so take it for what it is but:

We are called to sanctify Sunday, not to not do anything other than Mass on Sunday. The Church, in Her perennial Wisdom, has said that in order to sanctify Sunday, we ought to go to Mass.

If what I have heard in the past is correct, we are admonished not to do servile work on Sundays - ie. something a servant would do (cut the grass, clean the attic, etc.). But even by this metric - are we not supposed to cook on Sundays?

If you're shopping for something that's not necessary then I think that's wrong.

If you're shopping for something that's necessary (ie. groceries) that's fine.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God, Have Mercy On Me A Sinner

Bonaventure

QuoteIf what I have heard in the past is correct, we are admonished not to do servile work on Sundays - ie. something a servant would do (cut the grass, clean the attic, etc.). But even by this metric - are we not supposed to cook on Sundays?

The key is all unnecessary servile work.

Cooking and light cleaning are almost always ok. Spending 6 hours to do a heavy detail of one's truck, or tiling the floor, is not, unless it is necessary.

drummerboy

Even if it's not processed till Monday, online shopping on Sunday takes away time from other things we should be doing on Sunday.  Limiting screen time in general on Sunday is wise.
"My hope is the Father, my refuge is the Son, my protection is the Holy Spirit.  Holy Trinity, glory to You." 
"All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God; keep me under your protection."