What should I read to become real non-modernist catholic

Started by JeanVianney, October 07, 2019, 04:11:52 AM

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JeanVianney

Quote from: Miriam_M on October 08, 2019, 01:55:40 AM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 07, 2019, 06:15:01 PM

Suggestions:

1. My Catholic Faith
    Best catechism.



It's what our trad priests use for catechism.
What edition is the best one ?
Domine non sum dignus
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Salus animarum suprema lex
Professio fidei tridentina
Sacrorum Antistitum

Hannelore

I would start with a good Catechism: The Baltimore Catechism #3, This is the Faith, by Canon Francis Ripley, or My Catholic Faith by Bishop Morrow. Can't go wrong with any of them. :)
My Lord and my God.

Hannelore

My Lord and my God.

coffeeandcigarette

Quote from: Maximilian on October 07, 2019, 06:15:01 PM
I really discourage these other recommendations. Forget about heresies.

Suggestions:

1. My Catholic Faith
    Best catechism.



2. "The Way" by Msgr. Escriva
    The quickest, easiest way to discover in 999 sentences what it means to be a true Catholic.



3. Mary Fabyan Windeatt saints series.
   Children's books that imbue you with the true spirit of the traditional Church.



I completely agree that he shouldn't really focus on heresy. It is not going to make you any holier to know what a bunch of misguided people were thinking. Focus on Saints, Good holy sermons, etc. If you are following St. Alphonsus, St. Vianney, and St. Louis de Montfort, you will never have to worry about holding heresies.

JeanVianney

Quote from: coffeeandcigarette on October 08, 2019, 01:03:55 PM
I completely agree that he shouldn't really focus on heresy.
That is quite personal cause I focus on heresies.
I love one woman. She is very up to me. She helped me a lot of in the past. But she is protestant. And I will not, that she will end up in the hell, because of her heresy.
She s very intelligent(she is fluent in 4 foreign languages,she had profound knowledge of history math, but UNFORTUNATELY she ended up in very pernicious and dangerous cult too, because of her personal and mental problems. I have been praying for her conversion to the only true Catholic faith. I the future I will probably talk to her on one ocassion about the heresies she follows. And for me SALUS ANIMARUM SUPREMA LEX. She follows Lutheran Calvinist and evangelical heresies. That s why I read a lot of about protestant false argumentations and then about their refutations. Thomas Aquinas and his SUMMA THEOLOGICA helped me much in the art of argumentation.
Domine non sum dignus
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Salus animarum suprema lex
Professio fidei tridentina
Sacrorum Antistitum

Non Nobis

Quote from: Maximilian on October 07, 2019, 06:15:01 PM
2. "The Way" by Msgr. Escriva
    The quickest, easiest way to discover in 999 sentences what it means to be a true Catholic.




Don't some traditionalists think that St. Josemaría Escrivá (1902-1975) is suspect, since he was the founder of Opus Dei (novus ordo), and was canonized by Pope John Paul II?  Here's a thread where the Opus Dei and Escriva were discussed:

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=6223.0

Quote from: WikipediaEscrivá strove to obey whatever was indicated by the competent authority regarding the celebration of Mass and "[h]e took all necessary steps to ensure that the prescriptions of Vatican II, notably in the area of the liturgy, were applied within Opus Dei."[40] As his prayer was much integrated with traditional liturgy, Escrivá found the transition difficult and asked Echevarría to help him with respect to the new rites. Although he missed the practices of the old rites, especially some gestures such as the kissing of the paten (a small plate, usually made of silver or gold, used to hold Eucharistic bread), he prohibited his devotees to ask for any dispensation for him "out of a spirit of obedience to ecclesiastical norms... He has decided to show his love for the liturgy through the new rite", commented Echevarría. However, when Msgr. Annibale Bugnini, Secretary of the Consilium for the Implementation of the Constitution on the Liturgy, learned of Escrivá's difficulties, he granted Escrivá the possibility of celebrating the Mass using the old rite. Whenever Escrivá celebrated this rite, he did so only in the presence of one Mass server.[41][42]

But perhaps he is like St. Padre Pio, because at least he did prefer the TLM.  I am going to read at least something from him (Friends of God).
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!

Non Nobis

#21
Quote from: JeanVianney on October 08, 2019, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: coffeeandcigarette on October 08, 2019, 01:03:55 PM
I completely agree that he shouldn't really focus on heresy.
That is quite personal cause I focus on heresies.
I love one woman. She is very up to me. She helped me a lot of in the past. But she is protestant. And I will not, that she will end up in the hell, because of her heresy.
She s very intelligent(she is fluent in 4 foreign languages,she had profound knowledge of history math, but UNFORTUNATELY she ended up in very pernicious and dangerous cult too, because of her personal and mental problems. I have been praying for her conversion to the only true Catholic faith. I the future I will probably talk to her on one ocassion about the heresies she follows. And for me SALUS ANIMARUM SUPREMA LEX. She follows Lutheran Calvinist and evangelical heresies. That s why I read a lot of about protestant false argumentations and then about their refutations. Thomas Aquinas and his SUMMA THEOLOGICA helped me much in the art of argumentation.

You have to know the truth in order to successfully fight error.  You have to have at least a fundamental knowledge of the truths of the Catholic Church before you can fight heresies - otherwise you may unknowingly spread heresy yourself.  But I think when heresy is so harmful to others you know you can fight it once you do have some firm knowledge. Keep studying and praying. Remember that you are more responsible (under God) for your own salvation (and need truth yourself) than you are for hers.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!

JeanVianney

Is a sad, when somebody intelligent is misused by a cult. I was in the same cult too like my girlfried. But thank the God both me and my friend (not my girlfriend) left it, when we became more detailed information about it. My friend told me one story. There was a very intelligent psychologist, who helped missused people by cults. At long last she ended up in the cult too. It wonders me the power of the cults. The devil is behind them
To the theme
I will be reading not at once maybe for next 4 or 5 years this books SUMMA THEOLOGICA by Thomas Aquinas (in german), Alfons Ligouri Theologia Moralis (in latin), Some dogmatic I do not know the name of that book, Catechismus ad parochos (in latin) Baltimore catechism (english), Butler Lives of saints, and HISTORY OF THE CHURCH REV. DR. JOHN ALZOG. I chose every aspect of catholicism philosophy, moral theology, dogmatic theology, cathechism, saints, history to have a solid knowledge of the catholic faith.
Domine non sum dignus
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Salus animarum suprema lex
Professio fidei tridentina
Sacrorum Antistitum

Non Nobis

Quote from: JeanVianney on October 08, 2019, 05:16:58 PM
Is a sad, when somebody intelligent is misused by a cult. I was in the same cult too like my girlfried. But thank the God both me and my friend (not my girlfriend) left it, when we became more detailed information about it. My friend told me one story. There was a very intelligent psychologist, who helped missused people by cults. At long last she ended up in the cult too. It wonders me the power of the cults. The devil is behind them
To the theme
I will be reading not at once maybe for next 4 or 5 years this books SUMMA THEOLOGICA by Thomas Aquinas (in german), Alfons Ligouri Theologia Moralis (in latin), Some dogmatic I do not know the name of that book, Catechismus ad parochos (in latin) Baltimore catechism (english), Butler Lives of saints, and HISTORY OF THE CHURCH REV. DR. JOHN ALZOG. I chose every aspect of catholicism philosophy, moral theology, dogmatic theology, cathechism, saints, history to have a solid knowledge of the catholic faith.

Good, but read the basics "at once" (e.g. My Catholic Faith) - things that even a non-intellectual Catholic high school school student should know, but maybe you don't as a former Lutheran.   A long-term reading plan for a more solid and comprehensive knowledge is excellent but make sure you have a good simple base to start.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!

Tales

Sir,

From my understanding, people do not change important beliefs from argumentation.  It generally just inflames their defenses and hardens hearts.  People hate being faced with reality that is different from their perception of reality.  This is only effective in instances when the belief is merely casual and thus is willing to be changed without a care OR if the person has already lost faith in their former belief.

Debates / books against heretics are far less for converting that specific heretic than it is for the potential fence-sitter whom is listening.  I'll go out on a limb and guess that you were not merely converted from Lutheranism / Calvinism to Catholicism from argumentation.  Was there perhaps not first a longing for something better, an experiential failure in Protestantism?  That first movement, graced by God, is what opens the path for later intellectual understanding of Catholicism.  But without that first it seems all in vain.

For your friend the best course of action seems to be prayer for her conversion and living your Catholic life.  You can meditate on the role St. Monica played in the conversion of her son.  Your friend needs to open the door first before conversion is possible.  That opening of a door can be as small as a question of how you like Catholicism, and it can be provoked merely by her witnessing you living a Catholic life.

In short, the intellectual stuff comes later.  If it comes first, like truth bombs, then the air raid sirens go off and defenses straight up.

2Towers

Saint Alphonsus Liguori : In preparation of Death, or anything he wrote for that matter.
The Kingdom of hope, knows no winter.
-Daniel SG-1

JeanVianney

Quote from: Non Nobis on October 08, 2019, 06:02:21 PM
Good, but read the basics "at once" (e.g. My Catholic Faith) - things that even a non-intellectual Catholic high school school student should know, but maybe you don't as a former Lutheran.   A long-term reading plan for a more solid and comprehensive knowledge is excellent but make sure you have a good simple base to start.
The next month I will order the book My Catholic faith.
And I have one question about an book.
What only LATIN prayer book would you recomend me ?
is this one a good choise ?
https://www.amazon.com/Precationes-Christianae-Latin-Prayer-Book/dp/1784351326/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3M8ECW9ALURFN&keywords=latin+prayer+book+catholic&qid=1570591308&s=luggage-intl-ship&sprefix=Latin+pra%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C306&sr=8-3
Domine non sum dignus
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Salus animarum suprema lex
Professio fidei tridentina
Sacrorum Antistitum

Maximilian

Quote from: Non Nobis on October 08, 2019, 04:38:35 PM

  I am going to read at least something from him (Friends of God).

"The Way" is the only book published by Josemaria Escriva while he was alive. All the other books are part of the Opus Dei publishing industry.

"The Way" was written in the thirties. The others are possibly corrupted by Vatican II influence.

Traditionallyruralmom

#28
https://www.amazon.com/Catechism-Crisis-Church-Matthias-Gaudron/dp/1892331799
this one really helped me to understand the WHY of being a traditional Catholic. I do still attend diocese and Institute TLM's though  :) Im a unite the clans (as much as possible) type of gal.
Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat.

coffeeandcigarette

Quote from: JeanVianney on October 08, 2019, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: coffeeandcigarette on October 08, 2019, 01:03:55 PM
I completely agree that he shouldn't really focus on heresy.
That is quite personal cause I focus on heresies.
I love one woman. She is very up to me. She helped me a lot of in the past. But she is protestant. And I will not, that she will end up in the hell, because of her heresy.
She s very intelligent(she is fluent in 4 foreign languages,she had profound knowledge of history math, but UNFORTUNATELY she ended up in very pernicious and dangerous cult too, because of her personal and mental problems. I have been praying for her conversion to the only true Catholic faith. I the future I will probably talk to her on one ocassion about the heresies she follows. And for me SALUS ANIMARUM SUPREMA LEX. She follows Lutheran Calvinist and evangelical heresies. That s why I read a lot of about protestant false argumentations and then about their refutations. Thomas Aquinas and his SUMMA THEOLOGICA helped me much in the art of argumentation.

I see. Well just remember to Consecrate her soul to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart. Then worry about your arguments. Good luck!