Fornication Nation

[james03]

There is a deep philosophical consideration to what I'm posting.

Imagine a Trad Lass out with her secular gal pals.  The secularists are busy nattering about all the men they have fornicated with.  Trad Lass is asked how many persons she has slept with, and she says she is a virgin and saving herself for marriage.  She might even get a small complement (oh, that's good of you).  We'll ignore the fact that these harridans will in the future try to get her to fornicate as it is not germane to the topic.

No real problem with what Trad Lass said, per se.

Now consider the alternative.  Trad Lass is asked about the same thing.  She says, "I don't fornicate because fornicators burn in hell for all eternity.".

Everyone (rightly) is concerned about freaks putting on a dress and going into a little girls' bathroom.  Fornication is just taken for granted.  It's a sin, but it's not THAT bad.  Just a "journey of discovery" for young ladies.  A phase to go through (I am talking exclusively about secular hussies).

How did we get here?  One cause was the clamp down on Fr. (future saint) Feeney who preached to the Harvard students that they had to convert or they would burn in hell.

The obvious cause (because it is the main cause) is Vatican II and opening up to the world.  This is reached its climax with Bergoglio's "accompaniment".

However God is deeply offended every time people fornicate.

I would say forget about the tranny freaks and the sodomites.  Let the priests instead preach against the horrors of fornication and the terror of eternal hellfire that awaits the fornicators.  This is especially needed in "majority" Prot countries where the Prots regularly fornicate believing they get a pass because they said the non-biblical altar call prayer.  If people relearn how fornication is evil, there won't be a tranny issue and the sodomites will slink back into the shadows, shamed for their unnatural acts.

[diaduit]

It started with the comedy series Friends when Monica and Rachael bed hopped faster than a hungry tick.  Before that tv series would have settled at living together being engaged etc.  I was in my 20's when Friends hit and didn't believe the whole you can sleep around thing and being shocked that tv portrayed sluts in the positive but none of my friends cared less.  Add to that, nobody talks about sin anymore and didn't in the mid 80's when I was at convent school in Ireland.

[diaduit]

You should watch the
@whatever on youtube, its tacky and vulgar but the regular host has slutty girls and decent pure girls on and the sluts get a rude awakening about how body count matters.  First its a real eye opener to just how dumb these women are but also disappointing that most of the men don't really aspire to virtue either even though they tear apart the sluts.

[james03]

There is a new crisis brewing in the US at least.  Probably half of millennial women are childless and unmarried.  They will remain like this for the next 50 years.  It is a big demographics problem that will have many unexpected consequences.  Perhaps we can pack them up and ship them to China.

The main problem is Synodal Church teaching that Hippy Jesus would never send people to hell.

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God the Almighty

And the angel thrust in his sharp sickle into the earth, and gathered the vineyard of the earth, and cast it into the great press of the wrath of God

Fear of the Lord

[drummerboy]

I once had to correct a fellow Catholic who thought fornication was ok but adultery was bad.

[Mushroom]

It's more talk about abortion (safe topic) than contraception and fornication, which actually causes abortion. And being a virgin before marriage is taboo to talk about these days, especially with women. We need to implement measures with our own children (no cohabitation, date to marriage only, etc.) to stop this generational trauma. 

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

We need to implement measures with our own children (no cohabitation, date to marriage only, etc.) to stop this generational trauma. 

This is the only way.  We can't save the world because it's so far gone that it requires divine intervention, but we can (with the grace of God) save our own children.

This means:

• No cohabitation
• No 1-on-1 dating except for marriage
• As a consequence of the previous point, no 1-on-1 dating prior to the age of majority
• No internet use except when monitored, and only in a public area of the home
• No cell phones except dumbphones for emergencies when driving
• No sleepovers
• No unsupervised time at other people's homes
• No television (some movies and other parent-curated content excepted)
• No friends who think fornication and these other behaviors are normal
• Daily Rosary as a family
• Frequent confession

Now before some effeminate modernist comes along and tells me I'm out of my mind for expecting a kid not to rebel against me:  A kid might turn 18, move out, and violate every one of these rules in the first week.  I'd grieve and take that as evidence that I failed in some way.  But there's no way it's ever happening under my roof.

And I strongly suspect that by being strict, even if my kids do rebel against me, they'll do it in ways that are not devastating.  Whereas because a permissive parent sets such low expectations in the first place, for the child of a permissive parent to rebel against already-low expectations virtually ensures that the child's rebellion will be devastating.

[LausTibiChriste]

We need to implement measures with our own children (no cohabitation, date to marriage only, etc.) to stop this generational trauma. 

This is the only way.  We can't save the world because it's so far gone that it requires divine intervention, but we can (with the grace of God) save our own children.

This means:

• No cohabitation
• No 1-on-1 dating except for marriage
• As a consequence of the previous point, no 1-on-1 dating prior to the age of majority
• No internet use except when monitored, and only in a public area of the home
• No cell phones except dumbphones for emergencies when driving
• No sleepovers
• No unsupervised time at other people's homes
• No television (some movies and other parent-curated content excepted)
• No friends who think fornication and these other behaviors are normal
• Daily Rosary as a family
• Frequent confession

Now before some effeminate modernist comes along and tells me I'm out of my mind for expecting a kid not to rebel against me:  A kid might turn 18, move out, and violate every one of these rules in the first week.  I'd grieve and take that as evidence that I failed in some way.  But there's no way it's ever happening under my roof.

And I strongly suspect that by being strict, even if my kids do rebel against me, they'll do it in ways that are not devastating.  Whereas because a permissive parent sets such low expectations in the first place, for the child of a permissive parent to rebel against already-low expectations virtually ensures that the child's rebellion will be devastating.

Perfectly said.

I would personally add "Pray like you've never prayed before that they enter a monastery or have a vocation, making this whole monastery thing moot"   

A kid might turn 18, move out, and violate every one of these rules in the first week.  I'd grieve and take that as evidence that I failed in some way.

I used to think like this before I had kids - and would heavily judge people who's kids fell away. TBF, most kids who fall away, their parents did sweet F all to try and keep them in the Faith.

However, you could be a literally perfect parent, and the kid could still fall away. Hopefully, they'll end up a prodigal child, but still..

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

I used to think like this before I had kids - and would heavily judge people who's kids fell away. TBF, most kids who fall away, their parents did sweet F all to try and keep them in the Faith.

I have kids, and I still think this way.  They're all pretty young, so I don't yet have evidence that my plan is going to work.  They're doing great so far, though.

I don't judge people whose kids fall away, but I do attempt to learn from them.  And it's usually not difficult to identify a handful of ideas that probably would have helped.

However, you could be a literally perfect parent, and the kid could still fall away. Hopefully, they'll end up a prodigal child, but still..

I acknowledge that this is possible, but I think there's so much we can do to tilt the odds in our favor.  And most people don't do the things that help their odds.

[LausTibiChriste]

I used to think like this before I had kids - and would heavily judge people who's kids fell away. TBF, most kids who fall away, their parents did sweet F all to try and keep them in the Faith.

I have kids, and I still think this way.  They're all pretty young, so I don't yet have evidence that my plan is going to work.  They're doing great so far, though.

I don't judge people whose kids fall away, but I do attempt to learn from them.  And it's usually not difficult to identify a handful of ideas that probably would have helped.

However, you could be a literally perfect parent, and the kid could still fall away. Hopefully, they'll end up a prodigal child, but still..

I acknowledge that this is possible, but I think there's so much we can do to tilt the odds in our favor.  And most people don't do the things that help their odds.

Agreed on all counts

[dymphna17]

Don't be the type of parent that wants your child to be the most popular, loved by everyone, most beautiful and charming Belle of the ball. That will get her in trouble quick! Better yet, keep her away from the ball period. I've known Trad parents who have made this mistake.

[andy]

So fornication is a sexual intercourse between unmarried while an adultery is essentially an act of betrayal of a married person, or simply a sexual intercourse outside his/her marriage.

Are we talking about a catholic marriage here? What about countries where it is not possible? Or even atheists, if they form a lifelong union, do they fornicate as well?

[josh987654321]

This is the only way.

Agreed on all counts

I don't have any kids and am currently not married, nevertheless, the only thing I'd add to what you've both said, is that, every generation grows up with a new set of dangers that Parents are largely unaware of and cannot know about for they never had to face the same things.

For example, 1700's France was completely different to 1800's France, so the 'how to guide' from a 1700's Frenchman is not relevant for an 1800's Frenchmen. Every generation encounters new and unique challenges, tests and dangers.

So what you both said sounds good IMO, to try and protect their innocents and raise them in the faith, but most importantly, instill a love for Christ, the Christ who bleeds and suffers for us, who alone is the way, the truth and the life.

Agape Love can adapt to the environment, intellectualism not as much, the intellect is still important though IMO, nevertheless, Christ gave the King of France the Sacred Heart Crowned with Thorns (King is Father of a Country so the mirco level too) therefore there is something about it which had the Father (King) of France heeded it, would've saved that Country, the revolution may have played out in some form regardless, but not the reign of terror nor the abandonment and persecution of the faith IMO.

Also the Holy Rosary, Ark of the New Covenant, I'd also add the Brown Scapular but only if they wanted to and were ready to take it seriously and wear it.

God Bless You both, good luck and Godspeed.

[Arvinger]

How did we get here?

Nobody mentioned an elephant in the room, that is delayed age of marriage in Western world. In saner times early marriage at 18-20 was normal. Today the average age of marriage in the West is between 27-30, mainly due to hedonism, studies, long career path and difficulty in early climbing economic ladder to the point when you can afford family. This means that in order to avoid forncation young people have to suppress their sex drive for some 10-12 years before they get married and have a legitimate, non-sinful sexual outlet. That is a big thing to ask, especially since these 10-12 years happen to be the period when the hormones are raging and sex drive is strongest. In such a situation even many devout Catholics will fail at maintaining celibacy. Obviously, that does not justify the mortal sin of fornication, but realistically most people who do not have religious vocation will likely fail at maintaining celibacy for such a long period of time while their sex drive is at its highest.

Early marriage means that young people's sex is taken care of early and they have a legitimate sexual outlet. This is also consistent with the teaching of St. Paul, who advises marriage as a legitimate outlet for sexual passions which helps to avoid sin:

1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they do not contain themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt.   

[james03]

"Pray like you've never prayed before that they enter a monastery or have a vocation, making this whole monastery thing moot"

Someone must have a little girl he's raising.

For young Trad Lads like Laus who just started shaving, I'll tell you how it ends up.  What you are writing about is absolutely correct.  Being strict works.  Take them to confession, say family prayers, keep them off of evil social media and don't get cable.  I remember those days, and I went by Faith, always a bit nervous that if I screwed it up my daughter would run off to Seattle or Massachusetts.  What I was doing also made sense.

Getting her to have good moral friends is also very important.  Also, you can't just say NO!, you have to say Yes to good wholesome social activities.  Basically you want to raise your daughter so she looks at secular girls with their Skittles hair, nose stuck in their phones, all depressed, and she's thinking "Why would I want any part in that?".  Instead she's having fun with her moral friends.

Bonus advice: When your girl is a teenager, she'll start arguing with your wife.  It took me awhile to realize they both enjoy it and it is some sort of training exercise.  You only step in when the daughter crosses the line to disrespect.  Ironically at times you have to step in and tell your wife in private she needs to back off a little.