Author Topic: What do you think of Medjugorje?  (Read 2472 times)

Offline Jmartyr

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
  • Thanked: 364 times
  • "Merci Monseigneur"
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #90 on: September 13, 2022, 11:23:43 AM »

Majorgarbage teaches what Vatican II teaches.

All men and women are saved by whatever religion they belong to.
The heresy of the last 60 years.
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 
The following users thanked this post: Acolyte, Tennessean, Goldfinch

Offline Jmartyr

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
  • Thanked: 364 times
  • "Merci Monseigneur"
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2022, 06:07:06 AM »
And basically Freemasonry in a nutshell.
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 
The following users thanked this post: King Wenceslas

Offline Justin Martyr

  • Slave of Mary
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1298
  • Thanked: 933 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2022, 07:30:48 AM »
I was under the impression Freemasonry is a gnostic system, wherein through the use of certain symbolic, geometrical and mathematical magics (like the ancient Pythagoreans) one attains union with the "Grand Architect" and is freed from material existence at death; and the souls of the uninitiated transmigrate to new bodies, forced to live in the corrupt material world until they die among those with the secret gnosis of the right symbols and geometry. That's not really universal salvation.

Though, maybe I'm confusing some parts of what they believe with their predecessors like Hermeticism and Kabbalah.
One is my dove, my perfect one is but one, she is the only one of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her. The daughters saw her, and declared her most blessed: the queens and concubines, and they praised her. Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army set in array?
The Canticle of Canticles, 6:8-9

While those who give scandal are guilty of the spiritual equivalent of murder, those who take scandal — who allow scandals to destroy faith —are guilty of spiritual suicide.
St. Francis de Sales, The Catholic Controversy
 

Offline Xavier

  • Eternal Father, through Mary's Immaculate Heart, We Offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ in Atonement for our sins and those of the Whole World.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7908
  • Thanked: 5584 times
  • Slave of Mary CoRedemptrix-Mediatrix of all Grace.
    • Marian Apostolate Life Offering.
  • Religion: Roman Catholic.
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2022, 09:06:15 AM »
I seriously wonder how anyone who has read the messages can claim it teaches indifferentism; it clearly says salvation is by explicit faith in Christ alone (a position Msgr. Fenton held, and said was the more common opinion among theologians, and which I hold as well) and that pagans should convert to Her Immaculate Heart. Medjugorje naysayers just ignore this as if it doesn't exist.

1) "For e.g.: "Of you, my apostles, I am asking for your roses of prayer which need to be acts of love. To my motherly heart these are the dearest prayers. I offer these to my Son who was born for your sake. He looks at you and hears you. We are always close to you. This is the love which calls, unites, converts, encourages and fulfills.
Therefore, my apostles, always love one another and above all, love my Son. This is the only way to salvation, to eternal life. This is my dearest prayer which fills my heart with the most beautiful scent of roses. Pray, always pray for your shepherds that they may have the strength to be the light of my Son. Thank you."

Source: https://mysticpost.com/2021/01/medjugorje-today-january-14-2021-this-is-the-only-way-to-salvation-to-eternal-life-this-is-my-dearest-prayer-intimately-our-lady-reveals-the-secret-path-to-eternity/

Hence, Our Lady teaches that those who do not love one another and above all Her Son, Jesus Christ, cannot be saved.

2) And the other quote I gave earlier: "Little children, you be generous and be the love of my love, so that pagans can feel that you are mine and convert to my Immaculate Heart. Thank you for having responded to my call.” Taken from: https://www.medjugorje.cc/messages/ (Message for July 25, 2021). That is not indifferentism but encourages conversion.

Even if you disagree, you cannot reasonably claim that these messages teach indifferentism. Otherwise, answer how Salvation only in Jesus Christ, and the need for pagans to convert to Mary's Immaculate Heart, as bolded above, is compatible with that.

Let's recap.

1) Two Holy Priests - including a Top Vatican Exorcist Fr. Amorth (the other is Fr. Mark Goring) - believe in Medjugorje and neither are indifferentists.
2) The Highest Church Commission so far examined the issue and concluded the First 7 Apparitions are Supernatural. The Church is as yet neutral/non commital on the rest.
3) The Fruits that Millions of Catholics have experienced in Medjugorje are best explained by it being divine or supernatural in origin. The Miracles also indicate the same.

Btw, in Church speak, "supernatural" means the same as "divine" here; if you claim it is demonic, that is "preternatural".

Anyway, reposting the comments of those who've been there from the video in an earlier post. Namely, Reply #70.

Quote
...


Sample Comments/Testimonies in the link from Catholics who've completed pilgrimages there:

1. I saw so many supernatural things while I was there, most notably, an instant healing from depression. I'm still healed!!!

2. Yes,  we must pray the Rosay every day.
Oh Mary our Mother please pray for us all  🙏❤🙏

3. I was in Medjugorje 4 times, a beautiful, peaceful place full of hope and love. I had a great healing there in 2017. I am eternally grateful. Thank you Blessed mother 🙏

4. Mother Mary please protect all my family and friends and the whole world! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

5. I made a pilgrimage to Medjugorje in Oct 2019.  I did not realize I was there when the Amazon Synod was starting in Rome.  All I know was that I left there knowing that Medjugorje is what the church should be returning to.  That it is the heart and soul of the church. 

Then a funny thing happened on the way home my flight was cancelled out of Split.  I ended up staying overnight in Rome and even had time to walk around St Peter's square and have dinner nearby.  I left there feeling empty and cold. 

Places like Medjugorje are where the heartbeat of the true church is still beating.  And, will be how we survive whatever the evil child is trying to accomplish in his last days.  Rome will not protect us.

6. "My whole strength lies in prayer and sacrifice; these are my invincible arms; they can move hearts far better than words."~saint Therese of Lisieux

7. I've been there 5 times, having stayed at Mirjana's house 4 of those times.  So many graces, blessings, healing - Heaven on Earth!!

8. Medjugorje is the continuation and completion of Fatima.  It is the greatest confessional of the world, with the greatest fruits of radical, ongoing conversion. The message is PEACE through 1.Prayer, specifically,  the daily Rosary; 2 Eucharist - daily participation in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which should be the center, source and summit of each day and of our entire lives; 3. Abstinence, or Fasting, on bread and water, every Wednesday and Friday (the sick can fast in other ways - moreover, sickness and poor health is, itself, a powerful force of reparation for sins; 4. Confession, at least monthly, if not more frequently - and, of course, whenever needed! 5. Exegesis, or daily Scripture, as St. Jerome, Doctor of the Church, states that "Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.  AVE MARIA!!

9. Those of us that have been ( and there are millions ) are scandal proof Catholics.   Nothing keeps us from attending mass , praying for the holy father , confession etc .  Please let us all pray for The Blessed Mother’s intentions daily .

10. Wow! I'm so glad I went to Medujorge way back in 1987! It was such a holy place. We stayed in someone's home. There were no hotels or stores...It is so built up today.
"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre] exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass

"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, Save us from the Fires of Hell, lead all Souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need of Thy Mercy". Please pray this all the time.
 

Offline Jmartyr

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
  • Thanked: 364 times
  • "Merci Monseigneur"
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2022, 06:13:35 PM »
I was under the impression Freemasonry is a gnostic system, wherein through the use of certain symbolic, geometrical and mathematical magics (like the ancient Pythagoreans) one attains union with the "Grand Architect" and is freed from material existence at death; and the souls of the uninitiated transmigrate to new bodies, forced to live in the corrupt material world until they die among those with the secret gnosis of the right symbols and geometry. That's not really universal salvation.

Though, maybe I'm confusing some parts of what they believe with their predecessors like Hermeticism and Kabbalah.
They admit all Faiths into the brotherhood, making it a religion acceptable to everybody.
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 

Offline Paul_D

  • Vizekorporal
  • **
  • Posts: 109
  • Thanked: 109 times
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2022, 06:57:19 PM »
Let's recap.

1) Two Holy Priests - including a Top Vatican Exorcist Fr. Amorth (the other is Fr. Mark Goring) - believe in Medjugorje and neither are indifferentists.
2) The Highest Church Commission so far examined the issue and concluded the First 7 Apparitions are Supernatural. The Church is as yet neutral/non commital on the rest.
3) The Fruits that Millions of Catholics have experienced in Medjugorje are best explained by it being divine or supernatural in origin. The Miracles also indicate the same.

Btw, in Church speak, "supernatural" means the same as "divine" here; if you claim it is demonic, that is "preternatural".


Again, you ignore that the alleged apparitions in the latter part, even to now, have not been regarded as supernatural, even by the Ruini report, who is composed of people who have liberal ideas and give softball questions to the alleged seers! You also ignore the seers' obsession with making money!
 

Offline Paul_D

  • Vizekorporal
  • **
  • Posts: 109
  • Thanked: 109 times
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2022, 07:01:53 PM »


Sample Comments/Testimonies in the link from Catholics who've completed pilgrimages there:

1. I saw so many supernatural things while I was there, most notably, an instant healing from depression. I'm still healed!!!

2. Yes,  we must pray the Rosay every day.
Oh Mary our Mother please pray for us all  🙏❤🙏

3. I was in Medjugorje 4 times, a beautiful, peaceful place full of hope and love. I had a great healing there in 2017. I am eternally grateful. Thank you Blessed mother 🙏

4. Mother Mary please protect all my family and friends and the whole world! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

5. I made a pilgrimage to Medjugorje in Oct 2019.  I did not realize I was there when the Amazon Synod was starting in Rome.  All I know was that I left there knowing that Medjugorje is what the church should be returning to.  That it is the heart and soul of the church. 

Then a funny thing happened on the way home my flight was cancelled out of Split.  I ended up staying overnight in Rome and even had time to walk around St Peter's square and have dinner nearby.  I left there feeling empty and cold. 

Places like Medjugorje are where the heartbeat of the true church is still beating.  And, will be how we survive whatever the evil child is trying to accomplish in his last days.  Rome will not protect us.

6. "My whole strength lies in prayer and sacrifice; these are my invincible arms; they can move hearts far better than words."~saint Therese of Lisieux

7. I've been there 5 times, having stayed at Mirjana's house 4 of those times.  So many graces, blessings, healing - Heaven on Earth!!

8. Medjugorje is the continuation and completion of Fatima.  It is the greatest confessional of the world, with the greatest fruits of radical, ongoing conversion. The message is PEACE through 1.Prayer, specifically,  the daily Rosary; 2 Eucharist - daily participation in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which should be the center, source and summit of each day and of our entire lives; 3. Abstinence, or Fasting, on bread and water, every Wednesday and Friday (the sick can fast in other ways - moreover, sickness and poor health is, itself, a powerful force of reparation for sins; 4. Confession, at least monthly, if not more frequently - and, of course, whenever needed! 5. Exegesis, or daily Scripture, as St. Jerome, Doctor of the Church, states that "Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.  AVE MARIA!!

9. Those of us that have been ( and there are millions ) are scandal proof Catholics.   Nothing keeps us from attending mass , praying for the holy father , confession etc .  Please let us all pray for The Blessed Mother’s intentions daily .

10. Wow! I'm so glad I went to Medujorge way back in 1987! It was such a holy place. We stayed in someone's home. There were no hotels or stores...It is so built up today.
[/quote]

«Crowds have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can give them illusions easily masters them.»

- Gustave Le Bon, Psychology of Crowds (1895)

https://www.marcocorvaglia.com/en/le-banali-meraviglie-di-medjugorje


Peace, Fervor and Conversions

Ideas, feelings, emotions, beliefs possess in crowds a contagious power, as intense as that of microbes.
[Gustave Le Bon, Psicologia delle folle ("Psychology Of Crowds"), Tea, Milan, 2008, p. 160]

 


The ineffable sense of peace that a certain number of pilgrims claim to feel in Medjugorje is actually a contagious psychological cliché.
Francisco Sánchez Ventura spoke of the "peace of mind felt at Garabandal" [F. Sánchez Ventura, The Apparitions of Garabandal, San Miguel Publishing, Detroit, 1970, p. 144].

 


The same author wrote, speaking of Palmar de Troya:

 



The fruits of the phenomena to which I had occasion to witness [...] were, in essence, fruits of eternal life, which led, as a result, to a radical change of life and customs for many souls.
[Francisco Sánchez Ventura, Las apariciones en el Palmar de Troya, Editorial Círculo, Zaragoza, 1970, p. 53]

 




Here's how Felix Arana (formerly a religious of the schismatic Palmarian Church, which he left) described his arrival at Palmar de Troya:

 



I saw so many people who prayed with an amazing attention.
[Manuel M. Molina, Los Secretos del Palmar de Troya. Historia de una herjía, Arcopress, Córdoba, 2006, p. 85]

 


On 15 April 1972 three hundred followers of Clemente signed a letter of Manuel Alonso Corral (as mentioned, the closest collaborator of Clemente himself) addressed to the Archbishop of Seville, by whom they feel "persecuted" because of his opposition to the phenomenon:

 



At Palmar the penitential rosary with the Lord's Prayer, the Way of the Cross and the traditional rosary, usually of 15 mysteries, are daily recited with the greatest fervor, and reparation to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, to the Holy Face, and to our beloved Mother, the Blessed Virgin, are made. Cardinal, the conversions that have occurred in Palmar are numerous and solid.
[Cesar de la Lama, El Palmar de Troya. Milagro S.A., Efe Ediciones, Madrid, 1976, pp. 193-194]

 


A strange love for the spirituality that did not stop them from threatening the Archbishop:

 



Christ will be terrible towards those who attack His Divine Mother who appears in El Palmar.
[Ibid., p. 195]

 


Just as in Medjugorje, where Ivan reported on 21 June 1983, in a letter to Bishop Žanić, a message addressed to him:

 



If he does not convert or corrects himself, my judgement and the judgement of my Son Jesus await him.
[Cfr. Ogledalo Pravde. Biskupski ordinarijat u Mostaru o navodnim ukazanjima i porukama u Međugorju (The Diocesan Curia of Mostar on The Alleged Apparitions and Messages of Medjugorje), Mostar, 2001, p. 89 and René Laurentin, Message et pédagogie de Marie a Medjugorje. Corpus chronologique des messages, O.E.I.L., Paris, 1988, p. 312. English edition: Messages and Teachings of Mary at Medjugorje. Chronological Corpus of the Messages, Riehle Foundation, 1988]

Marco Corvaglia

Published on 2 July 2011. Updated on 13 March 2022.
_______________

It doesn't mean anything to you that the so-called Blessed Virgin threatened the Bishop of the diocese.  ::)
 

Offline Justin Martyr

  • Slave of Mary
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1298
  • Thanked: 933 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #97 on: September 22, 2022, 09:05:52 AM »
I was under the impression Freemasonry is a gnostic system, wherein through the use of certain symbolic, geometrical and mathematical magics (like the ancient Pythagoreans) one attains union with the "Grand Architect" and is freed from material existence at death; and the souls of the uninitiated transmigrate to new bodies, forced to live in the corrupt material world until they die among those with the secret gnosis of the right symbols and geometry. That's not really universal salvation.

Though, maybe I'm confusing some parts of what they believe with their predecessors like Hermeticism and Kabbalah.
They admit all Faiths into the brotherhood, making it a religion acceptable to everybody.

What does their indifferentism have to do with salvation? The masons don't believe anyone is "saved" (i.e., escapes the material world and is subsumed with the Great Architect) apart from the practice of masonry, which they view as transcending religion.

And they don't accept everybody, only monotheists.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 09:08:52 AM by Justin Martyr »
One is my dove, my perfect one is but one, she is the only one of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her. The daughters saw her, and declared her most blessed: the queens and concubines, and they praised her. Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army set in array?
The Canticle of Canticles, 6:8-9

While those who give scandal are guilty of the spiritual equivalent of murder, those who take scandal — who allow scandals to destroy faith —are guilty of spiritual suicide.
St. Francis de Sales, The Catholic Controversy
 

Offline andy

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1096
  • Thanked: 600 times
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #98 on: September 22, 2022, 07:20:04 PM »
1) Two Holy Priests - including a Top Vatican Exorcist Fr. Amorth (the other is Fr. Mark Goring) - believe in Medjugorje and neither are indifferentists.

Well, considering that Fr. Amorth broke all the Church laws and rules regarding privacy of exorcism ... Priests are not infallible.

 
The following users thanked this post: Paul_D

Offline Paul_D

  • Vizekorporal
  • **
  • Posts: 109
  • Thanked: 109 times
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #99 on: September 22, 2022, 10:38:16 PM »
1) Two Holy Priests - including a Top Vatican Exorcist Fr. Amorth (the other is Fr. Mark Goring) - believe in Medjugorje and neither are indifferentists.

Well, considering that Fr. Amorth broke all the Church laws and rules regarding privacy of exorcism ... Priests are not infallible.


Indeed. And if anyone wants to use an exorcist for "evidence" of the supernatural in Medjugorje, I can easily use another exorcist to deny its supernaturalism: https://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2011/04/bishop-and-exorcist-andrea-gemma-on.html
 
The following users thanked this post: Amos, andy

Offline Goldfinch

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 714
  • Thanked: 2039 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #100 on: September 23, 2022, 04:17:12 AM »
I was under the impression Freemasonry is a gnostic system, wherein through the use of certain symbolic, geometrical and mathematical magics (like the ancient Pythagoreans) one attains union with the "Grand Architect" and is freed from material existence at death; and the souls of the uninitiated transmigrate to new bodies, forced to live in the corrupt material world until they die among those with the secret gnosis of the right symbols and geometry. That's not really universal salvation.

Though, maybe I'm confusing some parts of what they believe with their predecessors like Hermeticism and Kabbalah.
They admit all Faiths into the brotherhood, making it a religion acceptable to everybody.

What does their indifferentism have to do with salvation? The masons don't believe anyone is "saved" (i.e., escapes the material world and is subsumed with the Great Architect) apart from the practice of masonry, which they view as transcending religion.

And they don't accept everybody, only monotheists.

While that was true at their inception, nowadays they're mostly agnostic or atheists.
"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great
 
The following users thanked this post: Instaurare omnia

Offline Xavier

  • Eternal Father, through Mary's Immaculate Heart, We Offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ in Atonement for our sins and those of the Whole World.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7908
  • Thanked: 5584 times
  • Slave of Mary CoRedemptrix-Mediatrix of all Grace.
    • Marian Apostolate Life Offering.
  • Religion: Roman Catholic.
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #101 on: September 23, 2022, 10:32:49 AM »
Here is what Pope St. John Paul II thought on Medjugorje; unknown to many, but known to those who've researched it.

https://www.medjugorje.org/wordpress/archives/33

"Pope John Paul II “Medjugorje – The Spiritual Heart of the World”
by ADMIN on MARCH 16, 2010

null

By Daniel Klimek, March 13, 2010 – http://www.ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=863&Itemid=125

Pope John Paul II once powerfully observed, “Today’s world has lost its sense of the supernatural, but many are searching for it –and find it in Medjugorje, through prayer, penance, and fasting.” The late pontiff and future saint, his holiness, spoke these words on August 1, 1989,while addressing a group of Italian physicians studying the apparitions in Medjugorje with medical and scientific investigations.

It is no secret within Rome that John Paul II absolutely loved Medjugorje, once even acquiring the nickname “Protector of Medjugorje” within the Vatican. Even eminent American intellectuals were no strangers to this reality. The great Franciscan intellectual, Fr. Benedict J. Groeschel, himself an investigator of supernatural phenomena, once admitted about John Paul II in a revealing interview: “I can tell you for a fact that the pope loves Medjugorje from afar and would go there in a minute if the theologians would let him.”

While it is known that the late Polish pope never personally visited Medjugorje, what is less known is that throughout the last two decades of his life Pope John Paul II held personal meetings and correspondences with Medjugorje visionaries, Medjugorje priests, even Medjugorje inner locutionaries, and numerous pro-Medjugorje bishops. His enthusiasm and love for Medjugorje’s mystics was overwhelming and filled with abundant respect and a joyful beauty overcome with hope. One such example is when Medjugorje visionary, Mirjana Dragicevic Soldo, met with John Paul II. She once shared the details behind this poignant, and somewhat humorous, encounter while addressing a group of pilgrims:

“I personally had a such a great honor to be able to speak with late Pope John Paul II. That was so beautiful. I was in St Peter’s Basilica in Rome with all other pilgrims. Pope as he was walking by, he was blessing everybody. He blessed me and just walked away. And then this Italian priest I was with said ‘Holy Father, this is Mirjana from Medjugorje.’ He came back, blessed me again and he left. And I said to this priest, ‘Father, you see he just thinks that I need a double blessing’ [laughter]. However, in the afternoon we received an invitation tomorrow morning to come to Castelgondolfo, close to Rome in order to talk to Holy Father. I don’t have to tell you that I couldn’t sleep all night. Tomorrow when I reached the place, he saw that I was so excited. We were alone and then he started talking to me in Polish. He thought I would understand because both are Slavic languages. He wanted to make me feel comfortable but I didn’t understand a word because it’s not even close to our language. However, I was crying and I couldn’t catch a breath to say a word. So when I finally succeeded to say a word, I said ‘Holy Father, can we try in Italian ?’ [laughter]. Then we talked and among other things he said to me, ‘If I were not Pope, I would be in Medjugorje a long time ago. I know everything, I have been following everything. Ask pilgrims to pray for my intentions. And take good care of Medjugorje because Medjugorje is the hope for the entire world…’ ”

Beyond such personal words of encouragement and trust for the visionaries and the fruits of faith at Medjugorje, Pope John Paul II frequently displayed his appreciation in officially signed papal blessings as well. Two such official blessings were given by John Paul II to Fr. Jozo Zovko, O.F.M., the pastor in St. James Church at Medjugorje when the apparitions began, and to Vicka Ivankovic, one of the Medjugorje visionaries who still receives daily apparitions. Vicka, like Mirjana, has also personally met with the Holy Father in Rome, exchanging gifts and warm sentiments of faith. The official blessing she received from the late pope hangs on her wall, beautifully framed, in her home.

Fr. Jozo met with Pope John Paul II in 1992, in the midst of the wars in the former Yugoslavia. John Paul II’s words to Fr. Jozo were striking: “I am with you, protect Medjugorje! Protect Our Lady’s messages!” The passion and urgency of the Holy Father’s words for the protection of Medjugorje make clear how much the holy site, as to millions of Catholics, meant to him.

That Our Lady is appearing in Medjugorje, the Holy Father had little doubt about. The papal blessing he signed and gave to Fr. Jozo read:
“I grant from the heart a particular blessing to Father Jozo Zovko, O.F.M. and I invoke a new outpouring of graces and heavenly favors, and the continuous protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Joannes Paulus II.”

The Holy Father’s own knowledge of Medjugorje and the major figures surrounding the events there was very impressive. Often his knowledge extended beyond the facts that many Medjugorje devotees may even know. For instance, most Medjugorje followers know that there are six visionaries. However, fewer may know that, in addition to the original six children who reported experiencing apparitions of Our Lady in 1981, two also reported experiencing interior locutions (locution cordis), the mystical grace of seeing and hearing Our Lady in an interior way – through the heart, especially when in prayer. Jelena and Marijana Vasilj, distant cousins, were the two youngsters who reported experiencing this grace. At Medjugorje, they acquired the nickname of “the seers of the second generation,” being ten year-old girls (compared to the older visionaries) during the beginning periods of the apparitions.

Of course, such idiosyncratic distinctions, between young mystics who received apparitions and those who received inner locutions—while perhaps a bit perplexing to many observers—were no problem for John Paul II to discern. He didn’t miss a beat. In 1988, John Paul II received a group of Croatian Catholics into his private chapel in Rome. He instantly recognized two members of the group from photographs he had witnessed. Approaching the two young girls, he said, “Ah yes, Jelena and Marijana, who have the interior locutions.” John Paul II greeted the girls warmly and stared into their eyes for some time with much amusement.

Today, both Jelena and Marijana are, of course, mature women. Jelena’s path has especially been interesting. Traveling to the United States for her undergraduate studies, she completed her B.A. at the Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio. Shortly thereafter, Jelena returned to Rome where she pursued a doctorate in theology at the Gregorian University, always displaying a sophisticated mind with a deep appreciation for the Catholic faith.

Only two years after the pope met with “the seers of the second generation,” John Paul II sent his friend and confidant, Bishop Paul Hnilica, S.J., then Auxiliary Bishop of Rome, to accompany Marija Pavlovic, another Medjugorje visionary, on a visit to Russia. Bishop Hnilica continually told Marija how much the pope wished to visit Medjugorje. Similarly to the words John Paul II gave to visionary Mirjana Soldo during their meeting, the Bishop emphasized how the Holy Father explained to him: “If I wasn’t the Pope, I’d be in Medjugorje already!”

Many bishops from around the world have had similar encounters with John Paul II on the topic of Medjugorje. In June 1986, in response to a group of twelve Italian bishops seeking advice on pilgrims traveling to Medjugorje, the pope recognized the indisputable fruits of faith present in the village: “Let the people go to Medjugorje,” he said, “if they convert, pray, confess, do penance and fast.”

Similarly, in April 15, 1990, the National Catholic Reporter quoted Bishop Michael D. Pfeifer of San Angelo, Texas. Bishop Pfeifer explained:
“During my Ad Lumina visit to Rome with the Bishops of Texas in April 1988, I asked our Holy Father his opinion about Medjugorje during the private conversation I had with him. He spoke very favorably about the happenings there, pointing out the good which had been done for people. During the lunch which the Texas Bishops later had with the Holy Father, Medjugorje came up for further discussion. Again His Holiness spoke of how it has changed the lives of people who visit it, and said that so far the messages are not contrary to the Gospel.”

Likewise, during his Mass Homily at the Notre Dame Conference on Medjugorje delivered on May 14, 1989, Bishop S. Treinen, Bishop of Boise, Idaho, related a conversation he once had with John Paul II:

“In the course of it [our conversation] I said: ‘Holy Father, I have just come from Medjugorje. There are wonderful things going on there.’ The Pope replied: ‘Yes, it’s good for pilgrims to go to Medjugorje and pray and do penance. It’s good.’ That’s first hand, I heard him say it myself.”
In February 1990, Bishop Murilo Krieger, then Auxiliary Bishop of Florianopolis, Brazil, reported a conversation with John Paul II about the apparitions, wherein the pope enthusiastically told him: “Medjugorje is a great center of spirituality!” Not only that but the Holy Father also happily assented to Bishop Krieger’s request, giving his papal blessings to the visionaries. Bishop Krieger explained:

“In1988, I was with eight other bishops and thirty three priests on spiritual retreat in the Vatican. The Holy Father knew that many of us were going to Medjugorje afterwards. After a private mass with the Pope, before leaving Rome, he said, without having been asked anything, ‘Pray for me in Medjugorje.’ On another occasion, I told the Pope ‘I am going to Medjugorje for the fourth time. ’He concentrated his thoughts and said, ‘Medjugorje, Medjugorje, it`s the spiritual heart of the world.’ On the same day I spoke with other Brazilian bishops and the Pope at lunch time and I asked him: ‘Your holiness, can I tell the visionaries that you send your blessing?’ He answered: ‘Yes yes,’ and embraced me.”

In addition to Pope John Paul II’s overwhelming support, in recent years Medjugorje has acquired some very influential supporters in Roman Catholic circles. Critics of Medjugorje, from the bishop of Mostar to German theologian Manfred Hauke, are given a lot of media attention. But what is noteworthy is how many cardinals have voiced their affection for the shrine, including Cardinals Tonini Ersilio, Emmanuel Wamala, Jean Margeot, Frantisek Tomasek and, most recently, his eminence Christoph Cardinal Schonborn, the Archbishop of Vienna who visited Medjugorje as a pilgrim for Christmas 2009. Even theologians have shown their appreciation. The French theologian Fr. Rene Laurentin and the Swiss theologian and cardinal Hansursvon Balthasar have been open Medjugorje supporters. Balthasar, in addition to being arguably the most eminent theologian of the twentieth century, is also known for co-founding—with his friend Joseph Ratzinger (the current Pope), and with others—the Catholic journal Communio. He frequently referred to the events happening at Medjugorje as “a theater of holiness.”
Most recently, the popular American priest, Fr. Donald Calloway of the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, published his autobiography, No Turning Back: A Witness to Mercy. Fr. Calloway is the vocation director for the Marians of the Immaculate Conception, the author of numerous books, and a leading proponent of the Divine Mercy devotions of St. Faustina Kowalska. It was a book about Medjugorje, The Queen of Peace Visits Medjugorje, which led to Calloway’s famous conversion, going from an agnostic and destructive youth wrestling with addiction, promiscuous sex, and illegal crime to someone who found hope, peace, and meaning in Medjugorje, leading to the priesthood and to his current life of spiritual maturity and personal unity with Christ and Our Lady.

The messages and fruits of Medjugorje have reached an innumerable amount of people. From the faithful millions who have visited the village to the millions who have read about it, to some of the most influential members of the Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II, who many Catholics believe was a mystic himself, had a special relationship (in his immense spirituality and in his devotion to Our Lady) with Medjugorje. He asked others to protect Medjugorje and he believed that Medjugorje was the fulfillment of Fatima.

Monsignor Angelo Kim, President of the Korean Bishops’ Conference, once wrote about his encounter with John Paul II in the Korean national weekly newspaper, Catholic News, in 1990. Prior to the conclusion of the last Bishops’ Synod in Rome, the Korean bishops were invited to a lunch with John Paul II. Msgr. Kim addressed the Holy Father directly and said, “Father, thanks to you, Poland was able to liberate itself from Communism.” To this, the Holy Father responded, “No, this is not my merit. This is the work of the Blessed Virgin Mary, as She had predicted in Fatima and in Medjugorje.”

As mentioned, in the Vatican he was known as the “Protector of Medjugorje.” In reality, this relationship was mutual. According to the testimony of the Medjugorje visionaries, on May 13, 1982, on the anniversary of the Fatima apparitions and on the occasion of an assassination attempt on John Paul II’s life, Our Lady said, “His enemies tried to kill him, but I have protected him.”

"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre] exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass

"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, Save us from the Fires of Hell, lead all Souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need of Thy Mercy". Please pray this all the time.
 

Offline andy

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1096
  • Thanked: 600 times
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #102 on: September 23, 2022, 11:11:09 AM »
Here is what Pope St. John Paul II thought on Medjugorje; unknown to many, but known to those who've researched it.


One more reason to disobey John Paul II teachings.
 

Offline Jmartyr

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 612
  • Thanked: 364 times
  • "Merci Monseigneur"
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #103 on: September 23, 2022, 11:16:36 AM »
Here is what Pope St. John Paul II thought on Medjugorje; unknown to many, but known to those who've researched it.


One more reason to disobey John Paul II teachings.
There are many more reasons, for sure. Some Thomism, for sure, but lots of existentialism peppered throughout.
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 
The following users thanked this post: Instaurare omnia

Offline King Wenceslas

  • They created covid the killer and the killer got loose.
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3039
  • Thanked: 1973 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: What do you think of Medjugorje?
« Reply #104 on: September 23, 2022, 12:35:32 PM »
Quote
A) "The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well." ("The Apparitions of Our Lady of Medjugorje," Franciscan Herald Press, 1984.)

B) "The Madonna said that religions are separated in the earth, but the people of all religions are accepted by her Son." ("The Apparitions of Our Lady of Medjugorje," Franciscan Herald Press, 1984.)

C) Question: "Is the Blessed Mother calling all people to be Catholic?" Answer: "No. The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son." (Janice T. Connell, The Visions of the Children, The Apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Medjugorje, St. Martin's Press, August, 1992.)

D) The Virgin was accustomed to reciting the Our father with the seers. (But how could Our Lady say: "Forgive us our trespasses," since she has none? At Lourdes, Our Lady was careful to keep her lips closed during all the Paters and Aves, reciting only the Gloria Patris.)

E) The Virgin: "I do not dispose of all graces... Jesus prefers that you address your petitions directly to him, rather than through an intermediary." (Chron. Corp. p.181, 277-278)  Perfectly Protestant!

F) Mirjana: "I recently asked the Virgin this question (whether many souls are damned), and she told me that nowadays most souls go to Purgatory." (book by Fr. Faricy, p. 64)

G) Oct. 1, 1981: "All religions are equal before God," says the Virgin. (Chronological Corpus of Medjugorje, p. 317)

H) "In God there are no divisions or religions; it is you in the world who have created divisions." (Faricy, p.51)

I) "God directs all denominations as a king directs his subjects, through the medium of his ministers" ("The Apparitions at Medjugorje," by Fr. Svat Kraljevic, 1984, p.58)

J) "Each one's religion must be respected, and you must preserve yours for yourselves and for your children." (Kraljevic, p.68)

K) "The Virgin added: 'It is you who are divided on this earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, like the Catholics, are equal before my Son and before me, for you are all my children." (Fr. Ljubic, p.71)

The Catholic Church teaches that Islam is an abomination and of the Devil:

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Basel, Session 19, Sept. 7, 1434: "… there is hope that very many from the abominable sect of Mahomet will be converted to the Catholic faith."

Pope Callixtus III, 1455: "I vow to… exalt the true Faith, and to extirpate the diabolical sect of the reprobate and faithless Mahomet [Islam] in the East."
[/size]

Majorgarbage goes hand in hand with Vatican II. Anyone who truly knows what it says, believes what it says and follows what it says will find himself/herself damned. Truly one of the major deceptions of the end times.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 12:52:20 PM by King Wenceslas »
 
The following users thanked this post: Amos, Goldfinch