Author Topic: Knife discussion  (Read 3411 times)

Offline Melkor

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Thanked: 1481 times
  • memento mori
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Knife discussion
« on: May 18, 2021, 07:00:45 PM »
I find Crucible’s s30v to be more than adequate. Never had an issue with it. I’m not hard on my knives but I certainly don’t pamper them.

I bet you carry a Chris Reeve Sebenza.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ
 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 07:14:23 PM »
Continuation of a prior off-topic divergence for the history.

Quote
I find Crucible’s s30v to be more than adequate.
It chips very easily, especially in production knives.

It works, but I prefer blades that are less brittle. There are many steels, and I have tried a lot, but for a knife I carry for a long time, the blade needs to hold up. Note: chips are not necessarily visible, but they do affect the edge.

I'm not a steel snob, and I look at the blade design and quality first, and the steel is secondary. A good knife maker picks the right steel for the knife, not just for marketing.

Quote
I bet you carry a Chris Reeve Sebenza.
No. I don't carry frame locks anymore.

As great as a lock as it is, it has this issue: if you are squeezing the knife, it can push the lock down, which is great for keeping it locked when being used, but can make it impossible to open if you must be tightly gripping the knife to hold onto it with one hand.

The one time I needed one handed opening, with a wet hand, I couldn't open my framelock knife because I had to keep a firm grip on it!

So now, for a one handed knife, I keep in mind the possibilities of the conditions where one handed opening is required and not just nice, and it is usually when one is not in ideal circumstances.

Anti-frame lock talk aside, I carry a knife that many consider criticize because it is not a toy or jewelry like so many others.

But it is a knife I think works better as a knife than the ones people say are better.

I carry an Emerson CQC7 (without a wave).

People scoff at 154CM, the chisel grind, and the lack of fidget spinner features, but in reality, the blade is perfect: its tip is better than every other knife. You can use it to pry without snapping it. The steel is expertly heat treated and they truly mastered getting the most out of it for a knife to use for real work. The "action" is deliberate: the blade goes where I move it, and there are no tricks or issues and it will work in all conditions.

The lock is great. The titanium liner lock is made to get the best liner lock design. Even as it wears, it will keep a tight solid lock. The mix of metals results in the metals sticking, so it doesn't slip. People treat "lock stick" as a defect, but it is useful, at least when it was deliberate in design.

Yes, the knife costs more than a PM2 and you cannot play with it like a PM2, but the blade alone makes it superior.

The handle is very much like a PM2 actually. The G10 comes rougher.

I don't carry with a clip.
 

Offline Melkor

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Thanked: 1481 times
  • memento mori
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 07:26:04 PM »
That surprised me. Emerson? Oh well each to their own.

Kidding aside, I am trying to find a titanium frame lock flipper that I like. Something more robust than my Pm2. I’ve seen the ZTs, seen the Fox knives (but heard bad things about the steel) and I’ve looked at Kizer’s lineup. But I can’t make up my mind honestly. Do you have any experience with Hinderers?
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ
 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2021, 07:38:21 PM »
That surprised me. Emerson? Oh well each to their own.
It is only trying a vast number of knives that I ended up using it.

I would say it is a specialized brand, and not for universal use. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who didn't specifically need their features.

Without a specific appreciation of what they are, they seem too ordinary and expensive. They are kind of like really good ratchets. Why get a 1/2" ratchet for $180 when you can get a a complete ratchet and sock set with a lot of accessories for $120? (Quickly looked up a Snap-On retail price and a Kobalt set.)

Quote
Kidding aside, I am trying to find a titanium frame lock flipper that I like. Something more robust than my Pm2. I’ve seen the ZTs, seen the Fox knives (but heard bad things about the steel) and I’ve looked at Kizer’s lineup. But I can’t make up my mind honestly. Do you have any experience with Hinderers?

For a titanium framelock flipper, I'd say go with Kai (ZT). I like the Sinkevich designs.

By robust, do you mean for the blade? The handle of the PM2 and the lock are very good. I'm not sure going for a frame lock flipper would get you a more robust knife. They are actually kind of delicate in some ways. I never went for a Hinderer brand knife, but I handled their designs. I like Emerson blades better.

There are tons of Chinese framelock flippers that are "nice". I don't like them for a lot of reasons. It is form over substance and they are imports from the PRC which can negatively affect domestic production, while not "playing by the rules". Many of the massive Chinese knife factories make fakes too. They make anything that sells. I'd recommend to stay away from them.

Be aware that titanium framelock flippers are sold like art and toys, not as tools. They can be good knives, but they are not "robust" by design.
 
The following users thanked this post: Melkor

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9740
  • Thanked: 4994 times
  • Gott, wende Dich zu uns und gib uns neues Leben
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2021, 10:25:49 AM »
What training have you two had to learn to deploy and use your knives? Have you ever been in lethal H2H combat before?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2021, 10:33:03 AM »
What training have you two had to learn to deploy and use your knives?

Back when Scouting was a good thing, I earned and maintained my Totin' Chip diligently.

My knife is a tool, not a weapon.

I never see it as a weapon and I would never use it as such.

If I am every in such a position to feel compelled to use it that way, I'd have used a screwdriver or a roll of pennies as weapon in the same situation.

People who see pocket knives primarily as weapons tend to be making a grave mistake that can get them into a lot of trouble or hurt.
 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2021, 10:38:28 AM »
Quote
Have you ever been in lethal H2H combat before?

That is a messed up question.

This is a discussion about pocket knives, including SAKs, traditionals, and other knives marketed for every day use.

I was very close to carrying a Stockman (examples of this pattern) before going with a modern design because it would be more useful and convenient in every day life.

My knife is a weapon only to the extent that the pen I carry is. Using them as a weapon was never a consideration and still isn't.

This topic is in the Arts and Leisure subforum for a reason.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 10:40:30 AM by Insanis »
 

Offline Melkor

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Thanked: 1481 times
  • memento mori
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2021, 12:18:41 PM »
Never had any training with knives. I always wanted to go for a knife fighting class, although I primarily use my knives as tools for hunting and fishing.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich

Offline Melkor

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Thanked: 1481 times
  • memento mori
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2021, 12:25:18 PM »
https://www.warriorsandwonders.com/Zero_Tolerance/Zero_Tolerance_ZT350_Tiger_Stripe_Blade

I am thinking about this one. Just wondering how hard a recurve is to sharpen.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ
 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion (as tools)
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2021, 12:33:17 PM »
I always wanted to go for a knife fighting class,

The legal and moral realities of "knife fighting" means it is assassination, not "self defense" or any sort of moral action. The times in real self-defense where it would be legally or morally justified wouldn't be "fighting".

Violence aside, as a tools, if you want to use a knife for any critical purpose though, do not get a flipper at the very least: they require ideal circumstances to work.

This is why I stopped using framelocks and flippers: they tend to cause issues when you really need it to work, which is rarely an ideal circumstance. In my case, it is with occupied hands, dirty or wet hands, etc. It is all fine and dandy flipping away for fun, but when real work needs to be done, you have a knife that tends to fail to lock up or even fail to deploy at all (ie, grip on the frame lock).

They are nice designs, but treat them like a stiff slipjoint knife for actual use. The flipping action and lock up tend to be less reliable when the situation is when you'd actually need it to work. And the blades tend to be a liability when they are not locked and not in the detent, as they flop around.

The primary way and least reliable way of deploying a flipper is by flipping it. The secondary and most reliable way is by grabbing the top of the blade with the other hand and manually putting it in position and testing the lock. It is, in practice, like a locking blade that sometimes becomes a terrible slipjoint.





 

Offline Melkor

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1156
  • Thanked: 1481 times
  • memento mori
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2021, 12:35:42 PM »
Well when someone pulls a knife on you, I would like to think it is fair game. If I lived in the states I would most definitely conceal carry. The right to self defence is not assassination, it’s a basic human right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ
 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2021, 12:36:25 PM »
https://www.warriorsandwonders.com/Zero_Tolerance/Zero_Tolerance_ZT350_Tiger_Stripe_Blade

I am thinking about this one. Just wondering how hard a recurve is to sharpen.

Those are nice bulky knives. They are assisted in case you didn't realize.

They are easy to sharpen. Use a rod or a stone suitable for it.

If you are using one of those systems I see being pushed or insist on broad flat stones, it is probably trickier.

I bought from W&W before, to import into the USA. Their service is excellent and their prices are usually great.

Kai's warranty service is great too.

 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2021, 12:39:14 PM »
Well when someone pulls a knife on you,
They intend to kill you and no fighting class can stop it.

Quote
I would like to think it is fair game.

It is either assassination or mutual assault or attempted homicide with a deadly weapon.

Quote
If I lived in the states I would most definitely conceal carry. The right to self defence is not assassination, it’s a basic human right.
Yes, but in real life, knives are horrible at it.

I've been mugged before (not too long ago actually), and I didn't go for my knife. I was able to stop the crime in progress and nobody get seriously hurt, but had I pulled my knife, I'd have committed a far greater crime and sin than the mugger.

Had the mugger pulled a knife and used it, I'd be dead most likely.

That is the nature of being that close to a threat.

Also, no class can teach you to actually do that, so you'd probably do it when you are most stressed or angry and unable to think clearly. Even if I had moral justification for using my knife against a person, I don't think I would.

(And I'm not going to entertain "what-about" scenarios which go far beyond reality just to find some justification for even thinking of my pocket knife that way.)

« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 12:40:58 PM by Insanis »
 

Offline Jayne

  • Mary Garden
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 15880
  • Thanked: 8235 times
  • Comic Sans Frontières
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2021, 01:25:46 PM »
Well when someone pulls a knife on you, I would like to think it is fair game. If I lived in the states I would most definitely conceal carry. The right to self defence is not assassination, it’s a basic human right.

That happened to my daughter.  Someone pulled a knife on her and so she pulled her knife which was bigger.  Oddly enough, this diffused the situation.  I suspect this was because the guy had only wanted to threaten rather than actually fight.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline Insanis

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Thanked: 1084 times
Re: Knife discussion
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2021, 01:31:57 PM »
That happened to my daughter.  Someone pulled a knife on her and so she pulled her knife which was bigger.  Oddly enough, this diffused the situation.  I suspect this was because the guy had only wanted to threaten rather than actually fight.

Guys don't need knives to subdue woman, so it sounds like some threatening and posturing going on.

Self defense for females does usually start with making a lot of noise and running, and real criminals find that effective at stopping them if all they wanted was an easy score.

I watched a video interview of a career criminal who robbed people and he talked about how he selected targets. I forget the citation, but it is clear he didn't want to get shot, and he didn't want to have his mark fighting back. They are like predators: they don't want to take risks when there are easy prey out there. I think his preferred target was an older woman if I remember correctly.

Of course, that is just the average criminal: the defense against people prepared and willing to go all the way are very difficult to stop.