Fraternite Notre Dame

martin88nyc · January 04, 2019, 12:51:13 AM

Today after Mass we had a big farewell reception for our dear priest who will soon transfer to Virginia. There were 3 traditional looking sisters who were willing to come to our apartment with a statue of Our Lady and pray. They belong to Fraternite Notre Dame and their bishop supposedly receives visions every month. Sound hooey to me but my polish friends believe in it especially since the "seer" bishop is of polish descent. Has anyone heard of this group?

Gardener · January 04, 2019, 01:21:58 AM

Thuc-line consecrated Bishop who claims he has been receiving visions and seeing apparitions of Our Lady for over 30 years...

http://www.fraternitenotredame.com/2011_2_0/apparitions.php

http://www.fraternitenotredame.com/2011_2_0/index.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternit%C3%A9_Notre-Dame

Sounds like a group I'd personally stay away from.

Maximilian · January 04, 2019, 12:46:37 PM

Interesting.

Their motherhouse in Chicago is just 1 mile from the SSPX chapel in Oak Park where I believe Bishop Tissier de Mallerais is residing.

Sempronius · January 04, 2019, 03:12:55 PM

So many things that I can't square with my idea of catholicism, its like Hamlet is saying to me

O, Horatio!
There are more things in heaven and earth,
Than are dreamt of in your Philosphy

VeraeFidei · January 04, 2019, 03:24:33 PM

Quote from: Maximilian on January 04, 2019, 12:46:37 PM
Interesting.

Their motherhouse in Chicago is just 1 mile from the SSPX chapel in Oak Park where I believe Bishop Tissier de Mallerais is residing.

Yes. Their nuns also do a lot of bakery stands at farmers markets, Christmas markets, etc. around Chicago. They speak with a heavy French accent but are nice enough and their baked goods pretty tasty.

+Tissier has been moved to the new Seminary I believe.

martin88nyc · January 04, 2019, 03:56:45 PM

Ok I finally found something on a blog written by Yves Chiron, a very reputable biographer.
This is a direct google translation of the webpage. If someone knows French then please see if there are any "incongruities" between original and google translation

The false priests and false bishops of Frechou - Yves Chiron - January 3, 2009

QuoteA weekly, well-intentioned and devoid of hostility towards the Catholic Church, publishes a report on the charitable action of the Fraternite Notre-Dame in Mongolia. His "exemplary devotion to a forgotten country of the world" is evoked on two full pages, with photographs in support. The two journalists are full of praise for those religious "from France" who "manage housing, a school and an orphanage".

We are simply pointed out, in a few lines in the middle of the article, that this congregation, "attached to the rite of Saint Pius V", is "not recognized by the Holy See", that its founder, "Mgr Jean-Marie" , affirms "to have attended, on June 10, 1977, an apparition of the Virgin in Fréchou, a small community of Lot-et-Garonne" and that this congregation "was classified as" sect "in a report of 1995, but without elements tangible ".

It's a bit short. We do not expect a news weekly, generalist, that it details the history of a religious congregation, but when it comes to a controversial community whose achievements are praised, it is necessary to learn more and inform readers.

The founder in question, Roger Kozik in the civil status, claims to have had not an apparition of the Virgin Mary but dozens, which continue, he says, today. A former seminarian, he was ordained priest three times by pseudo-bishops: in June 1974 by Jean Laborie, who later founded the "Catholic Latin Church"; in January 1976 by André Enos, who claims to be "Primate of the Independent Catholic Churches", in May 1977 by a pseudo-bishop linked to the false appearances of Palmar de Troya. The "abbot" Kozik was consecrated bishop a few days later at the same place. Then, in 1978, having broken with the Palmarian sect, he was consecrated Bishop, a second time, by Bishop Ngo Dinh Thuc, the only Catholic bishop, in this story, to have been canonically consecrated.

We know that the inconsiderate consecrations made by Bishop Thuc, without a pontifical mandate, have never been recognized by the Church. Roger Kozik himself ordained priests and consecrated bishops several members of his community.

All this is only the sad story of margins and religious deviations. But the so-called Fraternité Notre-Dame hides its real origins and pretends to be what it is not. Its charitable action in several countries (United States, Mongolia, etc?), Abuses the political authorities and the institutions on its true nature: the Fraternity Our-Dame is entirely based on the mystical illusion and the canonical illegality.

Yet many authorities and institutions are poorly informed about it and honor its founder with honor. In November 2002, on the proposal of the Ministry of Cooperation and Francophone, "Mgr Kozik" was elevated to the rank of Knight of the National Order of Merit for "32 years of religious life, dedication and military service" . The following year, in the presence of the person concerned, the name of "Rev. Bishop Jean Marie R. Kozik was given to a Chicago street (the French consul pronounced his eulogy). In 2004, in New York, the founding visionary received the Paul Harris Fellow Award, the highest honor bestowed by the Rotary Club. For several years, too,

Convictions

All these institutions did not know, one would believe, the real canonical situation of the person concerned. Since August 13, 1977, the successive bishops of Agen have multiplied statements and warnings against the appearances of the Fréchou deemed non-authentic. The Catholic Church does not recognize the ordinations and consecrations received by Roger Kozik and his companions.

Moreover, on May 10, 1991, following complaints from former members of Fréchou, the Agen Court of Appeals upheld a conviction "for breach of trust" against Roger Kozik and three other members of his community: conditional sentences, with a three-year probation and deprivation of civil rights for five years. In December following, the Court of Cassation dismissed the appeal filed by convicts.

Now the "Mother House of the Order" is established in Chicago, "Mgr Jean-Marie" usually resides there. But the chapel of Fréchou and the community established on the spot always attract many naive and misinformed faithful.

Yves Chiron

christulsa · January 04, 2019, 06:15:29 PM

They should place themselves under pope Michael. His mom is a good cook. It's true, I know a guy who (for some reason) visited their house in KS, swears by her biscuits and gravy.

Christe Eleison · January 04, 2019, 08:17:11 PM

Quote from: martin88nyc on January 04, 2019, 12:51:13 AM
Today after Mass we had a big farewell reception for our dear priest who will soon transfer to Virginia. There were 3 traditional looking sisters who were willing to come to our apartment with a statue of Our Lady and pray. They belong to Fraternite Notre Dame and their bishop supposedly receives visions every month. Sound hooey to me but my polish friends believe in it especially since the "seer" bishop is of polish descent. Has anyone heard of this group?

Martin, I agree with Gardener .

When I first read your post, I immediately thought of a group that I met in Chicago. Sure enough after reading the links I
realized that it is the same group of "Nuns".

I met this group of "Nuns" in Chicago while I was visiting the Christmas market (which was really nice even if I found
a lot of the market stuff overpriced).
The "Nuns" were selling all kinds of tasty treats, pastries, fudge, etc. When it comes to baked goods,
their stuff is really good, there was a line of people waiting to make purchases.

But, after I consulted with a very devout Holy priest from the area, I was told to "stay away, run away & to not visit them".
If I am not mistaken he mentioned how their Bishop was "ordained" by the Virgin Mary.....Or something to that effect.

I had a bit of a bad vibe, intuition, bad feeling or my Guardian Angel telling me something was wrong,
that is why I asked around.

On a positive note, they are really nice ladies, very charitable, they insisted on picking us up at our Hotel & driving us to
their place for Midnight Mass, and that they would bring us back. The thing is, it would take anywhere from 40 to 70
minutes each way (if not more, I can't remember).
Mind you, I have NEVER ever had any Trad, conservative Catholic or NO Catholic ever ever show this type
of kindness & hospitality. I was really floored by them & touched. I have seen something similar with the Mennonites,
where they are genuinely willing to help you in a very selfless manner.

They gave me a book (that they usually sell) of the work they do around the world.
They do a lot of charitable work in the poorest of areas.

The sad thing about that, is that the people receiving their help, assistance, charity, see them dressed up in
traditional old fashioned habits & probably say "This is the real deal". And since they are real charming, caring,
I am sure people fall for them. I almost did

They have recruited young men & ladies as possible vocations.

But again, something did not feel right so I declined their generous offer. They kept saying how God sent me to them.....

So, even though they are super nice, kind, charitable, caring, selfless human beings, sadly they are schismatics

And Gardener is right.

martin88nyc · January 04, 2019, 10:29:50 PM

Christe Eleison read this little gem. This says all we need to know and never give them any attention.

QuoteThe Lord, however, does not light a lamp to hide it under the bushel, and numerous persons were privileged witnesses (in those beginnings and also later on) to graces he is favored with. Among others, the gift of bilocation, the stigmata of Christ, the mystical ring, a gift of prophecy and reading into souls, the multiplication of hosts, the multiplication of food, miraculous cures, spectacular exorcisms, and again, a wealth of other graces...

Christe Eleison · January 04, 2019, 10:43:08 PM

Quote from: martin88nyc on January 04, 2019, 10:29:50 PM
Christe Eleison read this little gem. This says all we need to know and never give them any attention.
QuoteThe Lord, however, does not light a lamp to hide it under the bushel, and numerous persons were privileged witnesses (in those beginnings and also later on) to graces he is favored with. Among others, the gift of bilocation, the stigmata of Christ, the mystical ring, a gift of prophecy and reading into souls, the multiplication of hosts, the multiplication of food, miraculous cures, spectacular exorcisms, and again, a wealth of other graces...

Thanks, Martin

Yes, I read about the bilocation & the stigmata of Christ but had no idea about the rest. WOW! Just WOW!!
I am so glad that I did not spend time at their place. My only contact with them was at the Christmas market,
around other people. I am also glad that they did not come over to your home.

One thing I forgot to mention, is that I was so happy to see a huge Nativity/Manger scene in the Christmas market,
and lots of people were taking pictures. Chicago seemed very Catholic. At least I bumped into a lot of Catholics. I also
met some Catholics from Michigan that were visiting.

Maximilian · January 04, 2019, 11:09:29 PM

I never knew this group existed until today, so I have no personal knowledge of them one way or the other.

But I don't see any reason for all the hostility expressed here. I seem to be getting the sense that they are being attacked because "If they are really as nice as they pretend, then they must have ulterior motives."

Prayerful · January 05, 2019, 08:13:23 AM

The claims regarding continual Marian apparitions close to Medjuforgery in straining credibility, but this band of sedevacantists with a strong social focus are hardly gravely harmful. FND was not, like say LC, created to feed the lust and greed of their founder, nor like a few other Conciliar Orders, say most Jesuits and all Redemptorists, waging continual war on the deposit of Church Teaching.

martin88nyc · January 05, 2019, 10:45:45 AM

Quote from: Maximilian on January 04, 2019, 11:09:29 PM
I never knew this group existed until today, so I have no personal knowledge of them one way or the other.

But I don't see any reason for all the hostility expressed here. I seem to be getting the sense that they are being attacked because "If they are really as nice as they pretend, then they must have ulterior motives."

I don't see anyone being hostile here. Sober and watchful yes but not hostile.
have you read this:

QuoteThe Lord, however, does not light a lamp to hide it under the bushel, and numerous persons were privileged witnesses (in those beginnings and also later on) to graces he is favored with. Among others, the gift of bilocation, the stigmata of Christ, the mystical ring, a gift of prophecy and reading into souls, the multiplication of hosts, the multiplication of food, miraculous cures, spectacular exorcisms, and again, a wealth of other graces...

martin88nyc · January 05, 2019, 10:50:37 AM

Quote from: Prayerful on January 05, 2019, 08:13:23 AM
The claims regarding continual Marian apparitions close to Medjuforgery in straining credibility, but this band of sedevacantists with a strong social focus are hardly gravely harmful. FND was not, like say LC, created to feed the lust and greed of their founder, nor like a few other Conciliar Orders, say most Jesuits and all Redemptorists, waging continual war on the deposit of Church Teaching.

It isn't the church teaching I am worried about but the illusion and spiritual danger a place like that could pose. My friends are enchanted by these nuns and their bishop. One of them even said you fee love there you have to go. Just like Medjugorje enthusiasts always say.

Innocent Smith · January 09, 2019, 11:24:14 AM

I know them and have been to their gift shop and bakery in Wilmette and also their bakery in Vernon Hills Mall. Their macarons are out of this world.

ETA: I also bought a couple of their books including the one which documents all the messages received from our Lady. I simply browsed though it and have not studied it intensively. However, I have yet to find any doctrinal issues. Therefore it could qualify as being approved by the Church if they were not sedevacantists.

I did not see any messages that told popes what to do.