"Once saved, always saved" once again

Started by Heinrich, June 28, 2013, 10:52:39 PM

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james03

#15
July 06, 2013, 04:53:04 PM
If you save a man from drowning, can he drown again?

Admittedly some terms in the bible are not particularly precise.  For example, sanctification and justification are used interchangeably, but in modern usage they have more precise meaning.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

SouthpawLink

#16
July 26, 2013, 09:15:24 AM Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 09:18:50 AM by SouthpawLink
I Corinthians 6:9-10 — "Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God."

If the counter argument is that those with faith won't commit such sins, have your friend turn to chapter 13: "and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (v. 2).
"Is there no exception to the rule forbidding the administration of the Sacraments to baptized non-Catholics who are in good faith? In the case of those who are in good health, the prohibition is absolute; no dispute on this point is possible in view of the repeated explicit declarations of the Holy Office" (Rev. S. Woywod, A Practical Commentary on the Code of Canon Law, vol. I, sec. 625, p. 322ff.).

Contrast the above with the 1983 CIC, Can. 844 §3 & 4: "Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church. . . .  If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church." — The phrase "properly disposed" does not save the canon from error, because the context shows that no conversion is expected on the part of non-Catholics ("manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments" is the sole requirement).

Heinrich

#17
July 26, 2013, 02:34:50 PM
So the update: We never had many more discussions since the launching of this thread. I was not assertive in bringing up the subject and after I asked about Free Will, things didnt move from there. I will most certainly use the advice given here and I thank all who participated.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

verenaerin

#18
July 26, 2013, 03:29:11 PM
Henrich,

This is a book that I found very helpful in understanding and arguing with Prods back in the day.

Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on "Romanism" by "Bible Christians"


I actually gave it to a friend's dad who was having the same issues at work, he found it very helpful.

james03

#19
July 26, 2013, 08:15:26 PM
If you want to try to convert a prot, the go to book is "Not by Faith Alone" by Robert Sungenis.  It is a masterpiece.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Heinrich

#20
July 26, 2013, 09:15:08 PM
Sungenis is a towering intellect. Thanks for the reminder to bookmark his site.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Greg

#21
July 28, 2013, 12:58:54 AM
Quote from: james03 on July 06, 2013, 04:53:04 PM
If you save a man from drowning, can he drown again?


Not if you pull the plug out.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.
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