"gpd loves everyone"

[Chestertonian]

Didn't some saint say that, were everyone perfect, but only one person had original sin, Christ would still suffer as He did to redeem that one person?

I have heard of that idea too but have no idea where it comes from

[Bernadette]

Didn't some saint say that, were everyone perfect, but only one person had original sin, Christ would still suffer as He did to redeem that one person?

I have heard of that idea too but have no idea where it comes from

Father Faber mentions it in All for Jesus: The Easy Ways of Divine Love.

[Chestertonian]

I thought o remember some Marian apparition where our lady said that our Lord wished He never died on the cross because there is so much sin in the world and so many people rejecting Him


I don't remember that one either...  Would be private revelation anyway I guess

[Chestertonian]

The Bible does not say "transubstantiation" or "immaculate conception" or "holy souls in purgatory" yet we do believe these things are true so I don't think that's a valid line of argument

cam we describe God's love as unconditional?  I don't know.

He doesn't love us in hell (except insofar as we exist); but He loves everyone on earth.  It's not unconditional in the sense of being equal for everyone; but He loves all of us on account of the goodness He puts in us, and He also shows His love for all by being willing to forgive us even when we abandon His goodness and His love.  Above all He showed His love by dying for ALL of us, so that we CAN be forgiven.  Christ redeemed us all - THAT is unconditional. 

Chestertonian, don't let the difficulties with predestination confuse you into questioning these basic truths of the Faith. ...Read St. Francis de Sales instead of some posts here if they are making you think that God does not love you.  (Truth is never harmful in itself, but it is not necessary for everyone to think about matters that are theologically disputed.  Even hell itself (which should not be disputed) shouldn't be dwelt on excessively if you are prone to worry.) (Ask a priest if you should be thinking about these things so much)

God loves you. Trust in Him.

a priest also oncr told me that always have a crucifix and look at it if I ever doubt that God loves me so I try that.  But the "pro multi" psrt trips me up because if He only loves some souls and not others.... No way to know if you are one of the people Our Lord loves or if He hates you I have been in severe pain and it is hard not to feel like the pain is God's way of telling me that He hates me or the fact that I can't go to Mass or go inside one of His Churches because He does not want me to be near Him because He hates me

no reward for suffering if you were predestined to go to hell and always worry offering it up isnt done perfectly, or God will turn me away on a technicality like not saying the act of contrition right or forgetting to cobfess a sin or not feeling sufficiently sorry or even worse, not feeling sorry for a sin and then forgettinng to hace contrition at all

Can have hope in God's mercy all you want but does hoping necessarily mean He will have mercy He could just say "no, can't stand you, you are garbage and wish I never made you so no forgiveness for you"

hard to have any hope in heaven or

[Bernadette]

I've read that the "for many" can be taken to mean that not everyone will accept the grace of salvation. So many people choose to ignore God and commit sin instead. But Christ shed His blood to make salvation possible for all.

[Non Nobis]

The Bible does not say "transubstantiation" or "immaculate conception" or "holy souls in purgatory" yet we do believe these things are true so I don't think that's a valid line of argument

cam we describe God's love as unconditional?  I don't know.

He doesn't love us in hell (except insofar as we exist); but He loves everyone on earth.  It's not unconditional in the sense of being equal for everyone; but He loves all of us on account of the goodness He puts in us, and He also shows His love for all by being willing to forgive us even when we abandon His goodness and His love.  Above all He showed His love by dying for ALL of us, so that we CAN be forgiven.  Christ redeemed us all - THAT is unconditional. 

Chestertonian, don't let the difficulties with predestination confuse you into questioning these basic truths of the Faith. ...Read St. Francis de Sales instead of some posts here if they are making you think that God does not love you.  (Truth is never harmful in itself, but it is not necessary for everyone to think about matters that are theologically disputed.  Even hell itself (which should not be disputed) shouldn't be dwelt on excessively if you are prone to worry.) (Ask a priest if you should be thinking about these things so much)

God loves you. Trust in Him.

a priest also oncr told me that always have a crucifix and look at it if I ever doubt that God loves me so I try that.  But the "pro multi" psrt trips me up because if He only loves some souls and not others.... No way to know if you are one of the people Our Lord loves or if He hates you I have been in severe pain and it is hard not to feel like the pain is God's way of telling me that He hates me or the fact that I can't go to Mass or go inside one of His Churches because He does not want me to be near Him because He hates me

no reward for suffering if you were predestined to go to hell and always worry offering it up isnt done perfectly, or God will turn me away on a technicality like not saying the act of contrition right or forgetting to cobfess a sin or not feeling sufficiently sorry or even worse, not feeling sorry for a sin and then forgettinng to hace contrition at all

Can have hope in God's mercy all you want but does hoping necessarily mean He will have mercy He could just say "no, can't stand you, you are garbage and wish I never made you so no forgiveness for you"

hard to have any hope in heaven or

[Kaesekopf]

I thought o remember some Marian apparition where our lady said that our Lord wished He never died on the cross because there is so much sin in the world and so many people rejecting Him


I don't remember that one either...  Would be private revelation anyway I guess

If some apparition came down and said that, I'm 100% confident it'd be absolute trash. 

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

[JubilateDeo]

Do they? I don't think that's true either in theory or in practice.

I think that sometimes parents may find one child in particular easier to love, but that is different from loving that child more than the others.  Since love is an act of the will and all that.  A mom who is nursing one child might have a deep hormonal bond with them, and so it may come more naturally to love that child--as opposed to say, their teenager who is fighting them at every turn.  Or they may have an easier time loving their sweet 4 year old because everything they say is cute and hilarious, but their colicky 6 month old who isn't sleeping through the night might be more challenging to love.  It changes during all the various seasons of a mother's life.  But most moms I know who deal with this do make the effort to love the child who is harder to love, and to make it a priority.   

[MundaCorMeum]

Do they? I don't think that's true either in theory or in practice.

I think that sometimes parents may find one child in particular easier to love, but that is different from loving that child more than the others.  Since love is an act of the will and all that.  A mom who is nursing one child might have a deep hormonal bond with them, and so it may come more naturally to love that child--as opposed to say, their teenager who is fighting them at every turn.  Or they may have an easier time loving their sweet 4 year old because everything they say is cute and hilarious, but their colicky 6 month old who isn't sleeping through the night might be more challenging to love.  It changes during all the various seasons of a mother's life.  But most moms I know who deal with this do make the effort to love the child who is harder to love, and to make it a priority.

Well said. Not only that, each child's personality is very different. So, I may not love each child "equally" in the sense that it's doled out exactly the same with each child; but, I do love each child with my whole heart, yet differently for each one, as well. I love different things about them, because they are different people, with their own strengths and weaknesses. And, each child responds to the expressions of love differently, so I try to show my love for each child in a way that is meaningful to them, and even to varying degrees, depending on their particualr needs at the time.....not that I'm always great at, it of course, but I try. Each of our relatioships will be different as the years go by, like you said, but hopefully I always convey the message that my love for each child is complete, with my whole heart, depsite how difficult the relationship between us may be at the time.

[Chestertonian]

Before God is our Father, He is our Creator (and still our God). Very different relationship. That's why the idea of our adoption by God was (and is) so astounding. Behold the marvelous condescension of God, as one of the saints said. As far as I know, God doesn't actively desire anyone to go to hell. He died to redeem us and make the forgiveness of our sins possible. If He hadn't loved us, He wouldn't have bothered going through all that, or even becoming man at all.

I'll give you the same advice that someone once gave me, when I was scared of God: "When you're scared of Dad, go to Mom." Mercy is Our Lady's special office, as St. Alphonsus says: many souls are in Heaven because of her intercession and her outpouring of grace upon them.

anotherthing i wonder about is...if we are adopted children of god....were adam and eve children of god or were they just creatures,andthe only way to be a child of god is through christ

[Bernadette]

I would think Adam and Eve were just creatures...But I'm open to correction on this, as I've never really studied it.

Edit: And I have never, ever read that God only loves some souls and not others, or that He is only willing to forgive some souls their sins, and not others. I'd lay money that that is from the devil. 

[MundaCorMeum]

I would think Adam and Eve were just creatures...But I'm open to correction on this, as I've never really studied it.

Edit: And I have never, ever read that God only loves some souls and not others, or that He is only willing to forgive some souls their sins, and not others. I'd lay money that that is from the devil.

I can't recall ever reading this, either......especially not that he hates some souls. I don't think that is true at all.  I once heard it explained in a homily, years ago, that God's love is infinite, but not unconditional. Our love for Him should be unconditional, but His love for us is conditional upon our willingness to allow His love into our hearts. Every single person has the potential for their heart to be full to the brim with God's love. In fact, that is what God wants for each and every soul.  But, we have to let that love in.....that's the "conditional" part. So, if our hearts have less of God's love within (or, none at all), it is not because God is withholding it; or because He hates us and doesn't want us to have it. Rather, it is because our souls have been darkened (to a greater or lesser degree) by sin and disordered self-love. When we fill ourselves with disordered self-love and sin, and never strive to rid ourselves of it, it leaves less room (or, no room in the case of mortal sin) for God's love. 

[Chestertonian]

so.....we are to love God unconditionally but His love is not conditional... 
\ the idea of loving a God who does not love me....what it turns out that  he hates me, and i spend my whole life loving god only for him to hate me in return.  go to confession 10x in a row and yet...what if he still doesnt want to forgive.  can he create someone to have no natural virtues and could not please god even if i tried,

we are required to love Him but His love is not a given, He can withold it,

it seems perplexing that we have to love our enemies, but God does not love His own enemies.  of course i'm not god so.... doesnt really matter what I think



if most people go to hell....and god hates the damned then he hates most people....yet we tell children "god loves you" in ccd ....who knows if God really loves an y of us it's truly terrifying.

then the paradox is.... my wife loves me.  my mom loves me.  some people dont have that, lots of people dont.  a paradox that a person could be loved by their own parents, or their spouse but also hated by God....if god hates someone,why should anyone else love them

i guess we don't know for sure and w shouldjust love other people even if we do not know/   err on the side of caution.

there are also the cases where God creates people and puts them insituations where they have absolutely zero chance of receiving the sacraments,oreven knowing what a sacrament is.... some children are born into catholic homes where they are baptized right away....other children are born in grass huts in papua new guinea where they have no idea what Catholicism is,have never heard of baptism....

or miscarried babies whho have no access to baptism and cannot become children of god....we have lost a lot of chidlren this way...i look at our children who did survive,and often wonder "why them?  why did God want them to be His children but...not the others?"

or certain souls who have no access to churrch, and will never be able to go into His presence inside a church....HE puts people into these positions. 

or i worry that he hates me because i am unable to provide for my family, be self sufficient, or do most of hte things "a man" is supposed to do....often worry that i am an abomination.  how does he create people and put them in positionswhere they cannot be pleasing to Him even if they tried

[MundaCorMeum]

so.....we are to love God unconditionally but His love is not conditional... 
\ the idea of loving a God who does not love me....what it turns out that  he hates me, and i spend my whole life loving god only for him to hate me in return.  go to confession 10x in a row and yet...what if he still doesnt want to forgive.  can he create someone to have no natural virtues and could not please god even if i tried,

we are required to love Him but His love is not a given, He can withold it,

it seems perplexing that we have to love our enemies, but God does not love His own enemies.  of course i'm not god so.... doesnt really matter what I think

This is not what I said nor implied at all. I think you may have misread my meaning.  He doesn't hate the souls he created, nor does he withhold His love. It is us who reject His love; not Him who refuses to give it to us.

[Bernadette]

Where did you get this idea that God hates the souls in hell?