Author Topic: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?  (Read 645 times)

Offline Geremia

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Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« on: August 28, 2021, 07:29:35 PM »
Who comprised the group of Roman Theologians (teologi romani), signatories of the Ottaviani Intervention?
 
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2021, 08:33:00 PM »
Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani, Prefect of the Holy Office, Antonio Cardinal Bacci, a scholar of the Sacred College signed the covering letter. Archbishop Lefebvre chaired the committee which drew up the 'Study of the New Order of the Mass.' As to the names of the twelve theologians, that might take a little looking. +Ottaviani appears to step away, in a letter of 1970 to Dom Gerard Lalond OSB, perhaps just for a pottage of a rewritten GIRM, but given the harassment of the Econe seminary, it quite possible his name was added - +Ottaviani was blind, and he never rejected the critique otherwise.

Quote
Letter from Cardinal Ottaviani to Pope Paul VI

Rome
September 25, 1969

Most Holy Father,

Having carefully examined, and presented for the scrutiny of others, the Novus Ordo Missae prepared by the experts of the Consilium ad exequdam Constitutionem de Sacra Liturgia, and after lengthy prayer and reflection, we feel it to be our bounden duty in the sight of God and towards Your Holiness, to put before you the following considerations:

The accompanying critical study of the Novus Ordo Missae, the work of a group of theologians, liturgists and pastors of souls, shows quite clearly in spite of its brevity that if we consider the innovations implied or taken for granted, which may of course be evaluated in different ways, the Novus Ordo represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent. The “canons” of the rite definitively fixed at that time provided an insurmountable barrier to any heresy directed against the integrity of the Mystery.

The pastoral reasons adduced to support such a grave break with tradition, even if such reasons could be regarded as holding good in the face of doctrinal considerations, do not seem to us sufficient. The innovations in the Novus Ordo and the fact that all that is of perennial value finds only a minor place, if it subsists at all, could well turn into a certainty the suspicion, already prevalent, alas, in many circles, that truths which have always been believed by the Christian people, can be changed or ignored without infidelity to that sacred deposit of doctrine to which the Catholic faith is bound for ever. Recent reforms have amply demonstrated that fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment on the part of the faithful who are already showing signs of restiveness and of an indubitable lessening of faith. Amongst the best of the clergy the practical result is an agonizing crisis of conscience of which innumerable instances come to our notice daily.
 
We are certain that these considerations. which can only reach Your Holiness by the living voice of both shepherds and flock, cannot but find an echo in Your paternal heart, always so profoundly solicitous for the spiritual needs of the children of the Church. It has always been the case that when a law meant for the good of subjects proves to be on the contrary harmful, those subjects have the right, nay the duty of asking with filial trust for the abrogation of that law. Therefore we most earnestly beseech Your Holiness, at a time of such painful divisions and ever-increasing perils for the purity of the Faith and the unity of the Church, lamented by You our common Father. not to deprive us of the possibility of continuing to have recourse to the fruitful integrity of that Missale Romanum of St. Pius V, so highly praised by Your Holiness and so deeply loved and venerated by the whole Catholic World.

A. Card. Ottaviani
A. Card. Bacci
Feast of St. Pius X



According to Fr Cedaka RIP, it was written by Fr (later bp) Louis-Michel Guérard des Laurier OP.

It bears re-reading for it was a criticism of the Novus Ordo Missae in Latin on the High Altar, no lay lectors, no altar girls, as noted in the linked article. Some people suggest that. Fr Reese SJ suggested it, yet there is no more certain way for a diocesan priest to lose all that try a Latin Novus Ordo, with anything less than the explicit approval of his Ordinary. The two letter signatories would have attended the Missa Normativa which so horrified +Lefebvre, and disappointed the Council Fathers whose disapproval counted for little. I've a New Order hand missal nearby and it has a Latin Novus Ordo included for conventual use only, as though Latin was some dangerous narcotic, but even in Latin, it remains weak, full of ambiguities, too frequent in number to be inadvertent.

I'll try find the twelve, haven't but wanted to share some thoughts.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 
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Offline Geremia

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2021, 10:37:22 PM »
twelve theologians
Do you have a source for how there were 12 "Roman Theologians"?

Offline Prayerful

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2021, 08:04:37 AM »
twelve theologians
Do you have a source for how there were 12 "Roman Theologians"?

An piece on their main site states that +Lefebvre gathered twelve theologians to work on a document which a large number of Cardinals were to sign. Unfortunately it leaked and had to go out with just two, one of whom, +Ottaviani, had a faked retraction appearing in his name.

It is a document which bears re-reading. It emphasises flaws like the way EP3 seemed to imply a collective consecration by priest and people, almost deleting the priest. People often make too much of aesthetics which the NOM flaws run deeper.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 01:57:58 PM by Prayerful »
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2021, 01:06:49 PM »
Never mind.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Christe Eleison

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2021, 01:11:09 PM »
Never mind.

Did I just miss your post? I arrived too late...

Have a Blessed Sunday, MW! :)
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2021, 01:21:07 PM »
Never mind.

Did I just miss your post? I arrived too late...

Have a Blessed Sunday, MW! :)
Repeated information already posted by Prayerful; which I missed on the first reading.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Christe Eleison

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2021, 01:49:15 PM »
Never mind.

Did I just miss your post? I arrived too late...

Have a Blessed Sunday, MW! :)
Repeated information already posted by Prayerful; which I missed on the first reading.

Ahh, thanks, MW! :thumbsup:
 

Offline Geremia

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2021, 11:19:23 PM »
it leaked and had to go out with just two
The sedevacantist Fr. Georges de Nantes leaked it. I think the final letter to Paul VI only had Cdls. Ottaviani's and Bacci's names on it.

Offline Prayerful

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Re: Group of Roman Theologians who signed Ottaviani Intervention?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2021, 07:03:26 PM »
it leaked and had to go out with just two
The sedevacantist Fr. Georges de Nantes leaked it. I think the final letter to Paul VI only had Cdls. Ottaviani's and Bacci's names on it.

Abbé Georges de Nantes sailed close to the wind, such that this priest was summoned to Rome to explain himself, yet the founder of the Catholic Counter Reformation movement remained a priest in good standing, and was no sedevacantist. It was certainly unwise of him to have leaked it. If the Cardinals who supported it had all signed, it might have at least bounced Paul VI into conceding the universal indult which only was issued in 1984. Two were easily isolated, and neither were ever rebels.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 
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